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Renaming/rebolting aid route/attracting a girl! 2-May-2007 At 4:42:34 PM skip-skip

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Neil, to reply to your question about which routes/areas. Actually, can anyone tell me how to get the brown text that you quote other people with! Sorry, novice here :)

Look, with regard to new areas a decision should be made whether it is to be a bolted, non-bolted or mixed area. If it is to be bolted, then there should be routes equipped with bolts and lower-off even if there are natural placements. I know that is abhorrent to some people but that's my opinion and it is certainly not a novel idea. The decision rests with the new routers and whoever follows should do likewise. If the area is to be gear protected that is fine but by having somewhere that is mostly bolts but that you need some gear for just detracts from the climbing of those who want to go there and just climb. I am not trying to tell people what style they should climb but I think bolt protected climbing is very under represented in Victoria.

As for existing areas: Muline, the Gallery and Millenium should be considered sole bolt areas for starters. Perhaps even the Spurt/Taipan section. Many of the routes at Millenium which are supposed to be sport routes are just gratuitously runout, a good example of ego and first ascent status ruining climbs. I think if it's agreed by a majority of Victorian climbers then any retro/rebolting at the right areas is therefore no longer a problem.

One thing really needs to be said. We are all out there doing climbing by using the features in the rock and the protection, whatever it is just enables that to happen. It seems basic, everyone intuitively understands it. Except aid-climbers. They are not real climbers. They pound and poke their way to the top of some wall, planting a flag on the summit, proud in their conquering. They are like someone who drives their 4WD to the top of some hilltop lookout rather than enjoying the walk up there and all the interesting things on the way.

So this is in reply to you, Macciza. Dude, you don't even know the route in question or you would'nt be linking the need for "balls" to climb it. It has many bolts in it and one could place any number of good bits of gear in it. Any whimp could aid their way up it. Because the free climbing across the roof starts well left of the hanging corner, bolts were necessary to protect the start and it looks like many other bolts/pins/ rurps/whatever were replaced by Malcolm whilst trying to make the first free ascent. I am not meaning to insult him but those decisions on how to protect the route are done on abseil and after much inspection. What is bold or characteristic about that? If the free ascentionist was to launch up the aid route onsight, no bolts then that would be some character to preserve. The bolts in it now are rusted 8mm carrots from way back. As for dropping Zac's name as some reference, he was done with us at Muline the other weekend, complaining about the lack of bolts in Flower Power and how hard it was to work! We even discussed a method for enabling hard new routes to be progressively climbed. This involves bolting a hold to a seemingly blank section of a project then eliminating the hold in time when the requisite strength is gained. Kind of like aid climbing, don't you think!!!!:)