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risk?

estherrenita_

9-Nov-2006
9:21:42 AM

Is some kind of fascination with risk inherent to climbing?

…and I don’t want to start another thread about helmets.

paul

9-Nov-2006
10:54:54 AM

On 9/11/2006 estherrenita_ wrote:
>Is some kind of fascination with risk inherent to climbing?
>
>…and I don’t want to start another thread about helmets.
>
Maybe it is more a physcological desire to test one's self


mousey

9-Nov-2006
12:58:17 PM

yeh climbing really isnt that risky (not counting certain things like hard aid & alpine)
maybe for some it is? but for me its
>more a physcological desire to test one's self
to discover what im capable of i guess. and at the risk of sounding like a flippen hippy, the connection i feel to the natural surroundings is pretty special
and the moments....


dougal

9-Nov-2006
1:38:11 PM

Different strokes huh? Environments a biggie for me.. plus challenge. A bushwalk is lovely but challenge has element of risk and adapting to changing conditions

And then there are helmets. I have a thing for helmets. Helmets Helmets Helmets

Helmets.


Eve

9-Nov-2006
1:49:17 PM

it's sort of philosophical, isn't it...
"Living with the immediacy of death helps you sort out your priorities in life. It helps you to live a less trivial life." Sogyal Rinpoche

NEVERCLIMBED32

9-Nov-2006
2:12:41 PM

I think you need to be able to differentiate between HAZARD and RISK

HAZARD is the danger part of things
RISK is the likelyhood of harm occuring

For me, Top-roping Skating Away = No Risk
Soloing Skating Away = Very high Risk of Groundfall

I don't think to many crew would climb beyond the limit that they can control the risks created by the hazards presented by the circumstance of a particular climb.


kerroxapithecus

9-Nov-2006
9:43:54 PM

On 9/11/2006 Eve wrote:
>"Living with the immediacy of death helps you sort out your priorities
>in life. It helps you to live a less trivial life." Sogyal Rinpoche

I see the point and people who have had very difficult experiences or been near death often report that it has changed their lives and made them live a more meaningful life but I'm not so sure about whether this can be applied to situations where people intentionally live life on the edge. Spending a lot of one's life climbing rock could be seen as living the ultimate triviality.
It would be nice if people could prioritise and value what is important without needing to live with the immediacy of death.

kaleshnikov

9-Nov-2006
11:21:48 PM

This is a theory I once read , see what you think.
People who engage in high risk activities, be it rock climbing, extreme skiing whatever,
actually produce less adrenalin in there bodies than the average joe. Mr joe is quite happy mowing the lawns and thinks that all " extreme " sport type people have a screw loose. Climbers however, need that buzz, that burst of extra adrenalin production.
For me it is onsighting something at my limit on natural pro, the second time you do a climb is never as good a feeling.
Does this mean boulderers and sports climbers are a half step up on the evolutionary ladder from lawn mowers?
Any uni types out there care to follow this up

estherrenita_

10-Nov-2006
3:59:26 AM

>For me it is onsighting something at my limit on natural pro, the second
>time you do a climb is never as good a feeling.

Ah, that is really interesting to me.... the association between the onsight and the "first love"...it is never the same again....

The mystery has been lost.

What does this say about the "projecter"?

In regards to the adrenalin rush > I don't think I ever experienced an adrenalin rush until I started climbing...I think this was one of the life changing elements of climbing actually.
...Maybe the theory has some truth to it.


gremlin

10-Nov-2006
8:23:00 AM

I tend to think of climbing as a "thinking mans sport"...
There's a lot of science, physics, engineering and maths in it.
Maps to find you way, logistics of getting gear there, etc, etc...
Hazards and risk just add a few more variables to it.


Breezy

10-Nov-2006
8:23:58 AM

Um
Risk is jabbing yourself with a dirty needle or drinking stagnant green water out of a pond.

Climbing is just fun.

Shut up and climb :P


Phil Box

10-Nov-2006
9:01:05 AM

Mkay, thanks for that contribution Breezy.


Breezy

10-Nov-2006
10:01:59 AM

The point i was making is climbing is as 'risky' as you want it to be.

You can analyse till the cows come home.

There are far more risky things in life than climbing.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

10-Nov-2006
10:46:54 AM

On 9/11/2006 mousey wrote:
>yeh climbing really isnt that risky (not counting certain things like hard
>aid & alpine)
>maybe for some it is? but for me its
>>more a physcological desire to test one's self
>to discover what im capable of i guess. and at the risk of sounding like
>a flippen hippy, the connection i feel to the natural surroundings is pretty
>special
>and the moments....
This post sums it up for me.

Re
>"Living with the immediacy of death helps you sort out your priorities
>in life. It helps you to live a less trivial life."
This I have found from time to time to be true to an extent; but as time moves on I have found that the experience tends to be short lived, because it is all too easy to be overtaken again by the trivia of life.


Eve

10-Nov-2006
10:54:10 AM

it's certainly that:
> a physcological desire to test one's self to discover what im capable of i guess.

but it's also overcoming fear or acknowledging fear and not panicking (i.e. overgripping) but seeing it as a means to really focus. sort of an anology for life?
apart from that, climbing sort of seems to reset one's biochemistry (who knows what kind of quantities of hormones (endorphins, adrenaline..) are set free..?)


fatfairy

10-Nov-2006
11:28:31 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061109/od_afp/britainhealthfire

Overcoming fear?

Seriously though I also think mousey sumed it up, I think climbers don't take many risks (especially sport climbers) and is only the few "extreme" that do. As none of us here solo at our limit or spend half our life in avalanche zones, we can only comment based on speculation.


Paradise

10-Nov-2006
11:40:03 AM

Purity of focus, seclusion, self reliance, self control and intimate connection with the natural environment. Climbing is my reality check, or perhaps escapism that allows me to deal with the reality i have to exist in. Develops my belief in self and forms strong bonds with climbing partners. And so much fun :)

oh yeah i was supposed to say something about risk, I take very few (if i ever die or injure myself climbing i'm sure it will be because i was trying to be too safe) but it feels like i do (perhaps when i gain more faith in my gear i might take more risk but at the moment everything feels like soloing). Ali's is enough risk for me.

earwig

13-Nov-2006
2:44:25 PM

there was an article in New Scientist a few years ago talking about risk and brain structure stuff comparing mice and cows. apparently mice have a brain structure where seeing their own shadow is an extreme sport that really gets the adrenalin flowing while a cow tends to be unfazed by most things. the theory is that some people are mouse-like and pump out loads of adrenalin by having toast for breakfast instead of weeties while others are cow-like and need to be hanging off a cliff before the adrenal gland gets flowing.

so, i suppose someone has analysed it until the cows come home - probably from a day at their favorite cow-crag

doesn't explain however why the adrenalin buzz is a buzz for some so they seek it and a fear for others so they avoid doing anything likely to raise its levels

One Day Hero

16-Nov-2006
6:15:33 PM

I was flipping through a surfing mag the other day when it occured to me. If a bunch of people who are into a certain activity sit around thinking and talking about it long enough, they will manage to convince themselves that they're 'the shit'. Their activity is so pure and enlightening that they "get it" while the rest of the world does not.
Reading this surfing mag, it was apparent that surfers think they are 'the shit', which is funny 'cause I'm pretty sure they can't be since being 'the shit' is reserved for climbers.
Crapping on about risk is one way climbers reinforce their position as 'el shito'
Stuff taking risks, I like to climb cause it's fun, if I feel like I'm about to die the fun seems to evaporate.

patto

16-Nov-2006
8:08:01 PM

RISK

The bit that I love about the risk in climbing is that it challenge that needs to be overcome using your skills. A challenge where your competence is of upmost importance. There is a big difference in consequence between making a mistake while doing somebodies tax and making a mistake while your 80m up a cliff.

For some it might be an adrenaline sport but for me it isn't. If the adrenaline is really flowing then I'm normally shit scared because im fearing a painful and possibly dangerous fall. This is not exactly fun at the time. If I have good gear then the adrenaline hardly comes into it.

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