Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author

Route Setting

Plod

27-Jun-2006
9:50:28 PM

I have just finished reconstructing my bouldering cave and have filled it up with both wooden and commercial "plastic" holds. I have some more comercial holds on the way but the routes that I have set so far have been disappointing.

I was hoping to pick the brains of those who have route setting experience (and anyone else who has suggestions) as to how to set a good quality bouldering route.

All though I am after general suggestions, my 'woodie' consists of a 40 degree overhanging wall which is 4.5 metres wide and 3.2 metres high facing a 15 degree overhanging wall of the same dimensions. Both walls are seperated at the top by a 500mm wide roof section running the length of the walls and are joined at the ends by a vertical wall.

What makes a good problem? How do I go about planning one? Is it better to just pepper the walls with holds or to set specific routes? Where do I start to make the most of what I have?

dalai

27-Jun-2006
10:33:47 PM

Depends how many holds you have in total... given you have a quite a large surface area for a home woodie.

I would probably approach setting by starting with some basic sequences or problems in mind. With the view of setting other problems roughly over the first so you start getting more holds in that section of wall to start also making up eliminates on.

Inspiration can come from sequences of problems you have been on or the shape of one hold may give the idea from which a sequence may grow.

Things which should make your wall more intersting to boulder on, will be to make sure holds don't all face the same direction (sidepulls, underclings etc). Also varying the distances between holds helps stave off the feeling that the moves all feel the same.The final aim would be to have a wall full of reasonably random sized and spaced holds on which you can do eliminates on - so then good problems are only a matter of a creative mind.

And to complete the project, a psyched core group of friends then to come and train with you. As different people making new problems helps also keep interest in the wall. Also if they feel like helping add to the wall - as part of using friends walls such as the old Napier street or Power street woodies. We used to bring every few sessions some additional holds. These don't need to be bought holds but can also be more craftwood holds pre shaped and sanded ready to screw onto the wall and climb!

belayslave

27-Jun-2006
10:57:25 PM

Hi Bill,
Dalai said a lot of it...

IMO route setting is something that, a) takes a long time to master, and b) is affected by the amount of
outdoor climbing you do. I think that the best sequences and holds are those that are found outdoors.

My way of route setting is to put holds on the wall, look at the holds and ask myself "Do they look like a
ladder?" if not, then cool, set the next move, ensuring it's not the same as the last. You've got a decent
sized wall by the sounds of it so make sure you use it with traverses and zig-zag problems, using
underclings, side pulls, gastons etc as Dalai suggested.

Just keep doing it, get some friends round and watch how they go about setting problems.
The gym i used to train in back in Hobart had no fixed problems. All the bouldering caves simple have a
random splattering of holds and you make your own up. I think this is the best way of going, it promotes
creativity for every session and the comradary you get from having a group of people working on creating
and climbing one problem is fantastic.

Enjoy :)

robin

28-Jun-2006
7:21:10 AM

I've not done a heap of route setting but I do have a home woodie. I agree with belayslave using outdoor sequences as a basis for a problem is great. Outdoor sequences are obviously random (other than chipped or contrived routes) so you have to work out different ways of using holds.

I find some routes a bit too predictable with simple left-right combinations and the difficulty being dictated by the size and shape of the hold. Try including some different techniques such as heel hooks, matches, gastons, knee bar etc.

Also different people set entirely different styles of climbs/problems so if you can get friends around to set problems you will get greater variety on your wall.

rodw

28-Jun-2006
8:12:24 AM

Definately agree with Robin, over time youll set problems more suited to your style, get a few friends over of diffrent shapes and sizes and get them to set a few problems...crank up the stereo...fire up the BBQ...crack a few beers and let the creations flow.

I also use the rule that your foot holds (after the start) can only be the hand holds you used (with a few exceptions)....this can force you into varied body positions.

plod

28-Jun-2006
9:20:56 AM

Some great suggestions. Sounds like I need to keep making holds. I have manufactured loads of timber holds out of pine, oregon, redgum and jarrah but I have found that the shapes that I can produce are fairly limited. It seems that variety is the key. It's a big woodie and I can't afford too many plastic holds so I think I will need to be a bit more creative with the wooden holds. The wooden holds are very skin friendly however and they are more challenging to stick due to the low friction.

Ronny

28-Jun-2006
10:41:33 AM

The thrust of what's above is pretty much spot on - aim to eventually have a board covered (I mean really covered - use every inch) in random holds and then just go crazy with making up problems.

A couple of thoughts though (based on experience at the Foodland Woodie):

Name or number the holds and write the problems down. This may seem really anal, but its very frustrating when you get back to the woody and think "what was that cool problem with the gaston we were trying 2 weeks ago?".

Spend a month or so moving holds around/getting them well spaced/orientated so that they 'gel', and then leave them in place for a year or so. Then when you make up cool problems that you can't do, you can come back to them 6 months later (so long as you wrote them down). You'll need plenty of holds to make this viable though.

As well as tracking problems (hand holds as footholds), you can try screwing on loads of small footers (from ply/mdf etc) and then making a general rule that only those holds are in for feet. Cause its not much point having a mingin' sloper problem if you've got a bivy ledge for a heal hook.

I've used an angle grinder with a metal grinding wheel for shaping wood holds - this can be a good way of getting interesting shapes.

If all else fails, you'll need a friend around the corner with a woodie, plenty of time on his hands and regular finger injuries to set probs for you. That seems to work for me.

Boardlord might have some useful comments also...

J

Nottobetaken

28-Jun-2006
12:42:11 PM

A couple of suggestions from my experience (apologies for any repeat suggestions):
>What makes a good problem?
It's worth bearing in mind that the best boards evolve over time - so getting it right the first time (unless you've got a week or so's worth of spare days on your hands) isn't going to happen.
1. Handholds. Make sure you've got a great variety. Pockets, slopers, edges, underclings, pinches etc
2. Angles. Vary the angle of some of the holds themselves (as dalai has suggested). Unless you're trying to build a system board (yawn!) then you won't want every single hold to be aligned horizontally. For example, turn some of the edges into gastons, sidepulls - even underclings. Similarly with the pinches and slopers.
3. Hold types. Try and get a good mix of wood and plastic. Wood obviously is the cheapest option - and if you've got the right tools - the best for creating some unique shapes. Some examples of holds could be a) using 3 layers of MDF screwed together - then sanding one side off to create fantastic slopers. b) using simple pine blocks to create 'flat' slopers; 4-finger/3-finger/2-finger pockets (use a 'bore'-type drill bit) c) 10-15mm ply for good edges
4. Handhold scattering. The basic rule I apply is: big handholds = majority in upper 50% of board ; small handholds = majority in lower 50% of board. The key here is the word 'majority'. Not all! There are reasons for this - notably to do with footholds (see next point) but also on a 40 degree board especially - you're most likely to be making big moves from the base of the board upwards (in a lot of cases) - so you'll want some 'user-friendly' numbers to aim for in the upper reaches.
5. Sort out the footholds. Make a decision as to certain rulings for your board (as Ronny has suggested). If you've already drilled and placed the T-Nuts for your handholds - then think about adding some screw-on footers to fill the blank spaces (depending on the density of your grid). We have a policy that considers all holds painted red are footers - everthing else isn't.
6. Most importantly - before anyone comes over to play - start making some problems up and write them down. Very important to make things 'flow'. There's no point having an easy move, to an easy move, to a drop-the-clutch hard move, then back to easy. Make up 1 move problems, 2 move problems, problems that just rely on underclings, problems that just rely on slopers, variety problems (everything!) and of course - tracking. (A 40 degree board is especially good for this).
7. After a settling in period of about 4 weeks - keep the board completely unchanged for about 6 months (minimum) 2 years max. This will let you get a good collection of problems together (see point 8). The last 'phase' we had we ended up with 146 problems - you'll be surprised how much variation you'll get.
8. Keep a log book. 3 or 6 months down the track you'll be lapping the problems you once considered hard projects. It will also save you time when it comes to having a good training session - as you'll know what the warm ups are. You don't want to spend your entire TRAINING session sitting on the ground trying to be creative. Leave that for your rest days (or again - as Ronny says - your injured days!)
Because you've got a 40 & 15 - I would use the 15 degs mainly for slopers (with bad footers), and the 40 for the more positive type of handhold (though not strictly speaking).

Hope that helps!

plod

28-Jun-2006
2:53:52 PM

Thanks for the great advice. My enthusiasm is growing by the minute. Can't wait to get home and move some holds around. I'll also be busy making some more holds. I'm already finding it hard to take a day or two off training but I know I have to be carefull not to over-do it.

adski

28-Jun-2006
9:10:38 PM

It's smart to solve route cruxes by rolling and twisting but on a training woody most of the problems should be frontal to force core strength and wide rockover strength. Unless of course this training lark is all too serious and you're just bouldering for fun. :-) Nice start with the two walls at different angles, it's a good setup.

I wouldn't bother setting easy problems first, as it's easier to set these based off existing hard problems than it is to set nice hard problems when you've already put all your holds on the wall.

Taking a systems approach to setting boulder problems allows you to isolate particular grip types and work them: On a recent wall resetting frenzy my aim was wide crimp rockover strength. I first set a few crimp problems that I initally couldn't do, and worked on them for a few months until the point I could lap them with a weight belt. Once I had set one wide frontal pinch problem, I could set another on the other side by reusing half the holds :-) I then set a diagonal matrix of two finger pockets, that also reuses some of my more favourite and finger friendly pockets between problems.

Finally, finishing holds should *not* be tweaky, cause there's sure to be some wild slaps for the top! I have a small headwall above the 45 with a mix of slopers and blobs.

Once your base problems are on, it's time to get creative with the leftover holds or recreate your project's crux, have fun and don't neglect your antagonists.

Goodvibes

29-Jun-2006
7:22:59 AM

Wise words adski. Malcom Smith would be proud.

nmonteith

29-Aug-2006
2:21:38 PM

-bump - put post them up here for continuity!

ryan07

29-Aug-2006
4:09:31 PM

Depends if you areusing the woodie for training or just climbing. random holds everywhere can often make problems for you, if you wanted more set problems check sites like the old uncarved block site and the metolius website. you can often find ideas there. your woodie is whtever you want it to be

There are 13 messages in this topic.