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General Climbing Discussion

Longer Raps on Joined Ropes

12:21:51 PM
Anyone have some experience/science based info on the best (safest) rope config for longer (>100 metre) raps ? Have 2 ropes = 10.5 mm x 60M dynamic & 11 mm x 50 M static & belay device choice of Gri Gri/Fig 8/DNM Bug. Is it best (convention ?) to have the static rope or dynamic rope tied to the top anchor. What is the max no of joined ropes/rap length before (unwanted) "sh!t happens" ? (assume utilising back up prusiks/daisy chains/Jumars @ knot pass points)

12:46:17 PM
I have done a rap on 4 ropes tied together, without any problems, but you to get a large amount of bounce, and 2 of those ropes were static as well. IMO I think it is best to have the static rope at the top, that way the dynamic rope isn't working, and therefore bouncing, for the entire rap, only the second half.
Go the double fisherman for joining, you can use rethreaded 8, or plenty of other knots, they're all safe, but as your rapping off a single line, and if your going to do it a few times, you might want to consider a euro death knot (overhand), as they're really easy to undo after loading.

Phil Box
1:13:49 PM
Here`s another way of joining ropes together for those long single rope raps and jugs. tie your two ropes together as normal whether that be with a double fishermans or overhand. Then tie an alpine butterfly knot such that there is a loop sticking out of the butterfly containing the rope joining knot. Thus you have an omnidirectional knot with a handy clip in loop for knot passing.

You could continue to add rope lengths using this configuration to your hearts content. For those really long single rope raps like what would occur on El Cap or the Nose one would be better to invest in one continuous length of rope and 4 burly climbers to hump the rope to the top for you.

2:06:19 PM
Many thanx Shaggy & Phil;

* Static rope on top. * 2 ropes should be fine, 3 OK but for longer Raps = use less/longer rope(s) * Double fisherman's & stopper knots (my current practice). * Euro death knot option : joined single ropes = only as strong as the weakest link. * Alpine butterfly "loop" option = handy to clip into when "passing the knot". * "Porter" option for > 200 metres/16kg of rope ! (hired "photographic gear sherpa" to summit of Mt Rinjani Lombok last August inc Pentax 6x7cm medium format kit, it errupted again a month later)

9:15:54 PM
He he he Pentax 6 x 7, I used to haul a double p67 kit around until i decided to trade in on a digi kit and a mamiya 6x9, The 6 x 9 and 50 mm lens weighs half that of just the p67 body. Beautiful cam tho.
8:13:47 AM
I love Rinjani, been there several times. How do they fell about Australians there now? I'd like to go back again soon. Have you been to Semeru?

10:19:59 AM
Hi John;

The Lombok people are fine with aussies & are deperate for Aust tourists
(& their $'s !) to return given drop off(s) since the political instability of
1999/Bali Bombing 2002. Spent a week in Lombok pre/post the 3,700M climb
& stayed @ Senaru to photograph 3 x waterfalls. The views are spectacular and the Sasak locals are very friendly, practical/mountaincraft wise & good sense of humour to boot. Booked climb via Mataram based RTC = so good I'm going again next July with girlfriend. 60 Km trip over 4 days all up; from 1000M up to 3700M day 1.
Was my 22nd trip to Indonesia over the past 23 yrs inc 2 weeks surfing at Nias Sumatra 1981. Can we exchange emails to save e.blogging this site ? Alas no joined ropes at Rinjani = no anchor points = built on steep crumbling scree. Some bouldering around the lake cliffs though !

Steve :-)

12:59:52 PM
Hi Shaggy;

What digi cam do U have ? Am almost at the point of going digital for "happy snaps". 6 x 9 is a great landscape format. I have a light weight 6x9 kit = horseman back/47 mm schneider lens but only fixed infinity focus. Also use a light weight Tachihara wooden view camera (5"x4" & 6x12cm) & mix LF lenses for serious landscape/studio shots. Have a Subal housing/domes Nikon F90X & 2 x SB104 strobes for underwater. Use Nikonos V & velcro harness for surf photography. Use 2.8/180mm Nikkor/28 to 200 for most 35 mm outdoor work. I remember one of your earlier posts referring to the effect of 9.8 M/sec on a Pentax 6x7 = have heard of one falling from aircraft @ >1000M & surviving (must have been on a hay stack ?) PS : Pentax 6x7's can be "re-greased" for sub zero temp use = the choice over Blads for Arctic/Ice use.

Steve (Bapak) :-)

Phil Box
1:44:43 PM
This must almost be a record for thread hijacks. We`ve gone from rapping ropes to photography and falling cameras in the arctic.
7:35:15 PM
Sorry Phil, some threads just seem to go that way.
Bapak , did you stay at Yodh's place at Senaru, the place right at the waterfall?
Yes Rinjani is very crumbly, there have been a few rescues when climbers have fallen off the ridge. They have to use stake belays, driven into the gravel, to rope access them. Probably Bamboo, if I know those guys.

There are 10 messages in this topic.


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