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The ben thing is not dead (aka. failing ethics) 21-Sep-2004 At 2:26:14 PM REXONASHAKEWELL

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Not so worried about the one incident

nor do I see the behaviour of people putting up routes as generally anything less than impecable. with the amount of personal effort and funding spent to ensure a safe climb blah etc.

I couldn't disagree with you less about mentoring, but my issue is about what do you mentor people in. Ethics aren't just a set of rules, theyre about the aesthetic. (and the crowd goes blah blah old discussion heard before.) yeah well Its not so much chipping but the attitude that allowed someone to think it would be ok in the first place. The number of people that rushed to the defence is a character reference enough for me to know that the perpetrator is a good bloke.

So the mentoring system seems to be failing in terms of passing on a respect and love of the environment. We all accept that our existence particularly as climbers is somewhat destructive and I think most people have come to terms with that. But why do you think climbing and aboriginal/landowner interests have clashed?

how do you feel about the manner in which people repeat routes today?

Take arapiles or summerday as an example how many cigarette butts, lolly wrappers etc can you pick up (on the crags) on a typical days bumbling. Are these the freak accidents of something falling out of your pockets, or is it too frequent for that. Dont blame tourists its not them they dont end up half way up cliffs at belay ledges.

So the commercialisation of climbing and the ease of accessibility are just some of the forces I want to blame. I dont think anyone would disagree that a sport climb attracts ascents, they often attract me.

How many people who call themselves climbers do not even own a trad rack or know what ones used for. How do you mentor them when they have already decided that sport is the only way to go, with people posting facetious comments about a route being crap because they didn't need to sink steel.

The new cool aesthetic of consumer climbing is an evolutionary path to extinction of spirit, adventure and love.

Thats all for now, Just some things to think about.