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Your grading system is f#@ked 21-Sep-2004 At 9:06:30 AM Archangel in Oz

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I broke the first law of being an immigrant "Don't slag anything Australian" and it is quite funny to read the anti Pom rhetoric. If in doubt slag Pommies for err being Pommies and try to get a cricket reference in somewhere.

I have two more Australian cities to visit before returning to the UK on Thursday so haven't had much time to devote to this which is a bit lame after kicking it off. And yes it is also lame after not having done many routes but I have tried (see find climbers forum).

I had a brief look at the recommended threads and it seems like your ethics are in (choose word carefully) a bit of a mess also.

Do people in Australia say "I climb 24" (or whatever grade) as this would seem to be fairly meaningless without the subsequent description of what kind of 24 and the style of ascent. Clearly a proud young redpointer working a 24, is a totally different animal to a gnarly old trad climber flashing bold non-bolted 24s OS. When I say it's f#@ked, that's what I mean. The system obviously works fine to describe the overall technical difficulty of a route, but that's it and there is an obvious dichotomy.

People also seem to use it to describe a single move I have heard lots of times thus far someone say a route has moves of such a grade (and clearly that's how it is used at the Range). I understand from above that it isn't supposed to be used for that purpose. You tell me how it works.

As for Arapilian statistics...Well obviously I stand corrected 50 to 1 would seem to be incontrovertible evidence. Strewth bloody Poms eh. Part of the reason for moving to this part of the world is to climb at this crag that everyone talks so much about and I absolutely can't wait to get down there.

Wasn't Ewbank a Pom anyway? If so you would have thought he would have known how to (no I can't go there you Aussies are just too sensitive to sarcasm).