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The Eyrie, Mt Boyce retrobolted! Badly... 20-Apr-2017 At 12:19:14 PM PThomson

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Hey mate,

I'm not sure why you'd be 15m above your last bit of gear (the most runout you'll be on this climb is 5m at most), and there's bolts/chain in the belay cave which haven't been removed (and have been there for decades), so that's about the least runout spot (though no one can doubt the exposure, relative to the grade).

In Ewbank's original proposal for the grading system that we use, he specified that the grade WOULD encompass difficulty in placing the gear, quality of gear, runouts, rock-quality, and the entire experience. Obviously that's one aspect of it that never really took off.

The UK system is extremely complicated. It is comprised of the "Danger Grade" (officially called the "adjectival grade"), and the technical grade (which SOLELY refers to what is the technically hardest move on the route, and doesn't take into account sustainedness). The Danger Grade isn't MERELY determined by how runout or dodgy the gear is, it is also affected by:

1. The difficulty of placing the gear relative to the technical grade (meaning that even if it's the best piece of gear in the world, and you're never more than 2m above the last piece of pro, if the technical grade is high enough, the "danger grade" automatically goes up on the assumption that it's a lot harder to place gear on a 28, even if it's the best gear in the world).

2. The difficulty of placing the gear relative to how strenuous/endurance-orientated the route it, on the basis that it's harder to place gear if you're getting pumped. The same example I listed above can be transposed here.

My point is that even a system like the UK-system which is designed to take onboard the perceived dangerous aspects of a trad route, is still far from perfect (and "reading" the route from the UK grades isn't as straightforward as you might expect).

In the US they have the PG-13, R, X-ratings (which are sometimes used in Australia, but we often also have the Caution, Serious, Death ratings/symbols in different guidebooks.) Personally, I think that this form of "danger grading" is the most effective.

I'm not entirely sure, but doesn't Simon Carter's Blueys guide make a reference to the runout nature of The Eyrie for a beginner climb? Traditionally the dangerous nature of the route was given in its topo/route description.

Regards,

-Paul