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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 7. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 129
Author
Sonnie Trotter Goes Down on Tasmania
johny
13-Feb-2016
2:55:40 PM
Inspired by a visit from top Canadian trad climbers, I finally climbed a line on the Mountain I have been eyeballing for quite awhile. It's the face across from Inflagrente. I was a bit worried about the gear so I preplaced and preclipped the anchor. However, I barefoot solod past the bolted anchor to the top of the cliff which I'm pretty chuffed with. I'm not that happy with the overall style but since realizing the new wave of climbing ethics in Canada I have booked a ticket there and plan on toproping Cobra Crack for another fully sick send #InsertSponsorsHere!!! Thanks Kanuks for showing us how to climb down in sleepy little backwater Tasmania. Thanks for revolutionizing climbing in Australia!


Trotsky's Pink Revolution 40M 24/31 (or whatever happens to be the hardest grade in the state)
Climb up easy handcrack to no hands rest. Place high runner (skip if already preclipped the anchor) and stretch out left into crack on arete. Follow the arete getting close to the chimney in a couple places but well worth staying on line. Good gear but hard to place in spots, again not a worry if you preclipped the anchor Canadian style.


P.S. This route does actually exist. I did really climb it on top rope about an hour ago. I am really writing it up. If he can I can.... right?

The good Dr
15-Feb-2016
9:22:51 AM
Instead of sniping, get over yourself, and how about going down and climbing the crack that Sonnie did in better style and getting back to us with a spray about it.

He was up front about the style he did it in, including his reasoning. It is only climbing, not saving the planet.

Goshen
15-Feb-2016
10:07:58 AM
The purest style of roped climbing is onsight trad, placing gear, without pre-inspection. Anything after this is a grey area; and can always be done in a better style, although hard trad is almost never done in this pure style anyway. He could have top roped it, and claimed the first top rope ascent. As it is, he claimed the first lead ascent with preplaced and preclipped wires at the crux.

IMO, if it's a well established ethic in Tas to only claim a proper FA placing gear, then I guess his ascent could be ignored once the climb is done in a better style.

Snacks
15-Feb-2016
10:26:36 AM
On 15/02/2016 The good Dr wrote:
>Instead of sniping, get over yourself, and how about going down and climbing
>the crack that Sonnie did in better style and getting back to us with a
>spray about it.
>
>He was up front about the style he did it in, including his reasoning.
>It is only climbing, not saving the planet.

Hear, hear
kp
15-Feb-2016
11:08:01 AM
Goshen I think that's half the issue. It has been toproped by locals, and Sonnys ascent does not really improve on this style.

I can understand where CJ is coming from, even if he is s#it stirring in the process
dalai
15-Feb-2016
11:25:58 AM
On 15/02/2016 kp wrote:
>Goshen I think that's half the issue. It has been toproped by locals,
>and Sonnys ascent does not really improve on this style.

The pre-clipped wires were only in the first 3 metres from what I've read. Even led in this style is a step up from toproping...

Write it up with that in the description and when someone climbs it in better style report it thus.
simey
15-Feb-2016
8:37:48 PM
Being a bit of an old timer who likes to reminisce about the good old days, I personally want to thank CJ for initiating a slagfest about ethics and style, particularly as climbing is a bit too nice nowadays. Back in the good old days every second issue of Mountain would have someone bagging out someone else because they didn't like the way they established a climb. Reading it again now makes me feel young again.
One Day Hero
15-Feb-2016
11:36:55 PM
Given that Sonnie Trotter seems to have risked his life for a couple of mediocre looking routes in the past, this thing in tassie must be a total piece of shit if he didn't even want to risk a broken ankle.

I didn't think a good commie like cj would care about all the capitalist crap which this little pissing contest revolves around.
johny
16-Feb-2016
9:39:57 AM
On 15/02/2016 The good Dr wrote:
>Instead of sniping, get over yourself, and how about going down and climbing
>the crack that Sonnie did in better style and getting back to us with a
>spray about it.
>
>He was up front about the style he did it in, including his reasoning.
>It is only climbing, not saving the planet.

well my little piss take was mostly done in jest. i certainly didnt infuse any of my comments with the vitriol you applied in yours. god how i hate the hate haters.

Miguel75
16-Feb-2016
10:51:54 PM
On 16/02/2016 johny wrote:
>...SNIP... how i hate the hate haters.

I think Fat Mike agrees with you. From the album, The war on Errorism, American Errorist, (I hate hate haters)
"It’s ok, allow yourself a little hate
Hatred is not so bad when directed at injustice
You can turn the other cheek, just don’t turn the other way"
johny
17-Feb-2016
11:08:49 AM
On 15/02/2016 One Day Hero wrote:
>Given that Sonnie Trotter seems to have risked his life for a couple of
>mediocre looking routes in the past, this thing in tassie must be a total
>piece of shit if he didn't even want to risk a broken ankle.
>
>I didn't think a good commie like cj would care about all the capitalist
>crap which this little pissing contest revolves around.

at least you got the joke. i thought it was quite clever! i didnt think of it as a pissing contest. just trying to keep it real. it isnt a total piece of shit, but i was never that psyched on it.
One Day Hero
17-Feb-2016
6:08:18 PM
On 17/02/2016 johny wrote:
>at least you got the joke. i thought it was quite clever!

Yeah, not too bad for a quiet monday night.
johny
18-Feb-2016
3:51:31 PM
On 15/02/2016 simey wrote:
>Being a bit of an old timer who likes to reminisce about the good old days,
>I personally want to thank CJ for initiating a slagfest about ethics and
>style, particularly as climbing is a bit too nice nowadays. Back in the
>good old days every second issue of Mountain would have someone bagging
>out someone else because they didn't like the way they established a climb.
>Reading it again now makes me feel young again.

Thanks Simey. We have a massive stack of Mountain which I love reading during the daily constitutional. Maybe I was inspired by this?
Seriously though I was surprised that he sort of kind of claimed the FFA on this. In the end he conceded that it wasn't a FFA even though the online guidebook already has a pisstake entry of his ascent. It was really kind of weird considering his track record of being one of the best proper trad climbers in the world.
The sad thing to me isnt that "Oh My! Climbers are having a disagreement?!?!? What a nightmare?!?!?" it is that I reckon most people simply do not care about trad climbing ethics in the slightest. Like most of the people on this website. But maybe(and I sincerely hope this is the case) the people who do care about traditional climbing ethics are not the type to weigh in on the internet. I guess it takes a special kind of obsessed weirdo to get all uppity about climbing on facebook.

shortman
18-Feb-2016
4:39:57 PM
On 18/02/2016 johny wrote:
> I guess it takes a special kind of
>obsessed weirdo to get all uppity about climbing on facebook.

Yep, :)

The good Dr
18-Feb-2016
5:27:58 PM
Narkiness dressed up as unclever humor is still narkiness. Particularly when confusing stil' and etika. A common problem of the Lumpenproletariat

Vwills
18-Feb-2016
6:57:56 PM
Your attempt at humour was funnier than the pisstake on thesarvo which seeks to be funny by calling Sonnie "Sonia". That's just plain misogynistic even though I suspect the person posting it would deny this.
Maybe the pressure to be posting "new" ascents is driven by the need for sponsorship and having to keep things newsworthy on social media. He has succeeded on that front anyhow. Same with the totem pole hype. But he wasn't trying to hide anything, and gave people their dues.
johny
18-Feb-2016
9:25:19 PM
On 18/02/2016 Vwills wrote:
>Your attempt at humour was funnier than the pisstake on thesarvo which
>seeks to be funny by calling Sonnie "Sonia". That's just plain misogynistic
>even though I suspect the person posting it would deny this.
>Maybe the pressure to be posting "new" ascents is driven by the need for
>sponsorship and having to keep things newsworthy on social media. He has
>succeeded on that front anyhow. Same with the totem pole hype. But he wasn't
>trying to hide anything, and gave people their dues.

Yeah I thought thesarvo thing was funny at first but Anna-Veronique quickly pointed out the misogyny. I doubt that the author intended it that way... funny how insidious the patriarchy seeps in. At the end of the day, this may have been the most offensive thing to come out of the whole c--khead crack! I am against the kind of PC thuggery from the "good" dr. types who oppose being critical of anyone else unless you think someone is being critical and then its open season... BUT I totally respect that a casual comment like the Sonia thing could piss off a lot of people. Anna was hot!

You may be correct about those reasons although I reckon Sonny is above that crap which is why I was surprised about the ffa toprope stuff. And I didnt feel like he gave people(well really the route) their dues until the end when he basically retracted the whole FFA idea.

and for the dr. I guess you dont have an opinion or care about top-roped first ascents but I do. Yes it is probably hard for you(and most people reading this I imagine) to believe that people actually take climbing seriously. So is it a crime to be narky now, whatever the F that is suppose mean? I already gave a bullet point list complete with precedence and forensic evidence. What more do you want? Your only contribution to any of this was basically a rude "I dont want to hear it" as if my concerns were totally irrelevant. Well it was important to me, everyone I know that climbs 5.13 and certainly Sonny.
johny
18-Feb-2016
9:44:02 PM
On 15/02/2016 Goshen wrote:
>The purest style of roped climbing is onsight trad, placing gear, without
>pre-inspection. Anything after this is a grey area; and can always be
>done in a better style, although hard trad is almost never done in this
>pure style anyway. He could have top roped it, and claimed the first top
>rope ascent. As it is, he claimed the first lead ascent with preplaced
>and preclipped wires at the crux.
>
>IMO, if it's a well established ethic in Tas to only claim a proper FA
>placing gear, then I guess his ascent could be ignored once the climb is
>done in a better style.

I agree with your first sentence obviously. But I am not sure about the rest. How many top rope ascents of sport climbs (outside of the super nerdy thecrag.com) ever get mentioned? I derisively refer to them as Brown Points. Its kind of a mark of shame. I think climbing a trad route with preplaced gear is the same as toproping a sport climb. They both do not count for shit. Its pretty simple. If he had said "I top-roped it but couldnt send it on my trip but it goes! Good luck!" great wonderful! We already knew this but thanks for trying. He didnt say this. He renamed it and called it FFA. I would have called the same BS if he had toproped one of the bolted projects and tried to rename it and say it was ffa.

I am glad that you chimed in because I really respect your opinion on this. I think its important for people to sort this thing out. There are still people who should know better pre-placing gear on new routes on supposedly dangerous routes. Writing up a scary route that you couldnt even lead properly by placing the gear is in my opinion very low and potentially dangerous to repeat ascents.

Duang Daunk
19-Feb-2016
8:04:05 AM
On 17/02/2016 johny wrote:
>i didnt think of it as a pissing contest. just trying to keep it real. it isnt a total
>piece of shit, but i was never that psyched on it.

Have you been on it?

On 15/02/2016 simey wrote:
>Being a bit of an old timer who likes to reminisce about the good old days,
>I personally want to thank CJ for initiating a slagfest about ethics and
>style, particularly as climbing is a bit too nice nowadays. Back in the
>good old days every second issue of Mountain would have someone bagging
>out someone else because they didn't like the way they established a climb.
>Reading it again now makes me feel young again.

simey, I hate to be the bearer of bad news; but you are never going to be young again, and if you keep on with the old fart reminiscing theme next thing you will usurp M9's crown and I will bag you out mercilessly about it.
Then again you could always take up first aided ascents like he does to keep your cred intact.
simey
19-Feb-2016
8:39:37 AM
At least M9 is getting on rock with his first aided ascents, which is more than what I have been doing. Talking about first aided ascents, maybe Sonnie is secretly working towards taking M9s crown. But he cant just jump in the deep end. That is why he is doing it in baby steps.

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