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Loose bolt on Sweet Dreams

dtb

4-Jun-2015
2:42:43 PM

The last bolt before the 3rd belay on Sweet dreams (end of the traverse) is loose. It looks like the glue has broken away from the rock and there is movement in the bolt.
We didnt try to pull it out but it definitely has some wiggle in it.
We marked "loose" with chalk next to the bolt but that wont last long.

Thought others more qualified in its repair should know about it. :)

Macciza

4-Jun-2015
2:59:53 PM

Or you can just place a bit gear somewhere along the way . . .

kuu

4-Jun-2015
5:16:02 PM

On 4/06/2015 Macciza wrote:
>Or you can just place a bit gear somewhere along the way . . .
>
Oh sh1t, who'da thought of that?

;-)

Olbert

4-Jun-2015
6:06:44 PM

Maybe close the route until someone qualified can safely install a new anchor to the latest standard?

E. Wells

4-Jun-2015
7:28:04 PM

Looks like it was a dirty hole but who knows with that white glue. It will be replaced within a week and a half. Pretty cruisy section so no biggy.

Timfreddo

4-Jun-2015
7:37:53 PM

No biggie as there's a perfect #1 Camelot a metre away from that bolt...

E. Wells

5-Jun-2015
6:32:17 AM

I am not sure if that would be safe freddo. I watched a you tube where someones gear all came out and they were using those thingos. I think it was 'stonemasters'. Some american wannabes. It should be safe as its very poplar rockclimbings.

Timfreddo

5-Jun-2015
6:36:46 AM

Next time I'm there, I'll glue the cam into its placement...
I believe this is the future of climbing in Australia as the bumpy boys and beard strokers will both be happy

Macciza

5-Jun-2015
11:33:27 AM

Probably best to just remove it completely as it is a retro added long after the first ascent . .
It might help keep the little kids off it . . .

Or just let the guiding companies deal with it, surely they are the only people who actually use it anyway . .

jrc

5-Jun-2015
2:51:46 PM

Looks like a screw rather than a bolt. Is this a new standard?

I must have climbed past it when I did it the first time.

Drake

7-Jun-2015
2:11:23 PM

I tried to wiggle this bolt on my way past yesterday, and it sure felt fine to me. Perhaps I don't wiggle as well as the original poster, or I am less attuned to the ways of loose bolts, or there was some extreme rock swelling/shrinking happening. However I've clipped (and fallen on) carrots heaps dodgier than this one.

I agree that the (retro)bolter or one of the guiding companies should have a look, but I don't think the situation is dire.

timfreddo

7-Jun-2015
5:51:31 PM

I also gave it a wiggle on my way past yesterday, definately shifted around in its hole a bit, couldn't make it spin with finger strength though...

On 7/06/2015 Drake wrote:
"However I've clipped (and fallen on) carrots
>heaps dodgier than this one"

Be careful not to think a carrot is less dodgy due to its shiny new appearance.. At least rusty carrots might have had the chance for the rust to swell with age, creating a tighter fit (as long as it was a decently placed carrot in the first place!)
In the case of this bolt, it looks like failure of adhesion between glue and rock due to not enough cleaning of the hole prior to gluing the bolt in. IMO weaker then a rusty looking carrot

nmonteith

7-Jun-2015
7:23:49 PM

It is not a screw, it is a fully threaded machine bolt. With good glue and a clean hole it would be super bomber. I have some hazy memory of someone who was rebolting that route saying they has problems with the glue not setting - and then they went back and tested/fixed them.

ajfclark

8-Jun-2015
8:05:16 AM

On 7/06/2015 timfreddo wrote:
>Be careful not to think a carrot is less dodgy due to its shiny new appearance..

I'm sure this looked relatively OK before it was wiggled out with fingers:

What's happening under the surface can be very different.

nmonteith

8-Jun-2015
8:05:20 AM

Sounds like a repeat of the problem that got 'fixed' in 2012.

http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=11&MessageID=4268&Replies=1

E. Wells

8-Jun-2015
9:02:49 AM

On the contrary whats on the surface in that photo does indicate whats happening beneath. That is an expansion bolt. The bolt is not stainless. The hanger is. That is enough information to indicate an issue. This is a stainless set screw that is ever so slightly loose on a grade 2 ledge. Not ideal, but as a trad peice I would say its bomber. There is no galvanic corrosion just a hole that wasnt obsessively brushed and blown. Climbers not using slings on all the traverse bolts would add to the issue.

Drake

8-Jun-2015
12:33:25 PM

>> Sounds like a repeat of the problem that got 'fixed' in 2012.

>> http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=11&MessageID=4268&Replies=1

Could you summarize what happened in this thread in 2012 for those of us without access to the safercliffs forum?

nmonteith

8-Jun-2015
5:53:30 PM

On 8/06/2015 E. Wells wrote:
>This is
>a stainless set screw that is ever so slightly loose on a grade 2 ledge.
>Not ideal, but as a trad peice I would say its bomber. There is no galvanic
>corrosion just a hole that wasnt obsessively brushed and blown.

I'm not sure if 'ever so slightly loose' is not worth worrying about! Any form or looseness in any sort of bolt (expansion, carrot or glue-in) should be treated with extreme caution. It is a very obvious sign of imminent total failure. Even though the climbign is easy on this route - the bolts are a long way apart and it is a traverse. People do weird shit with bolts. A frightened climber could easily clip in direct if they get scared and hang off this bolt. If it fell out the fall would be really really nasty. Low angle with ledges is way worse to fall off on then overhung.

nmonteith

8-Jun-2015
5:57:51 PM

9/2012 - Sweet Dreams was rebolted.

19/12/2012 - Someone reported shortly after "two new carrot bolts are loose (traverse pitch approx 3rd & 6th bolt). Glue white and grainy."

Bolter replied "Will fix this up tomorrow (weather depending). We did this in the dark. We pulled tested all the bolts before we left and they were good. Possible the glue did not mix 100% on those two holes. I will be able to tell by the colour of the glue when i get there."

20/12/2012 - Bolter posted "Fixed. Strength wise there were nothing wrong with these two bolts in question. There was a small air pocket in the last part of the hole (about 20 mm, as i said they were done in the dark). This allowed the bolt to slightly flex in the last part of the hole when forced. The bolts are 100 mm long. I replaced both of them anyway and they were quite hard to crack and twist out and the thread was internally good. Of course i drilled new holes for the replacements and patched the others."

Drake

9-Jun-2015
7:19:52 PM

>>> 9/2012 - Sweet Dreams was rebolted.

Thanks Neil.

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