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General Climbing Discussion

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Bolting in the Warrumbungles 8-Jun-2011 At 7:52:04 PM king335

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hey martym, i am not pretending to have started the thread, i am referring to the direction i was hoping my comments would steer the conversation.

the guys in the Czech do take this to the absolute extreme. but i'm sure they are full aware of the risks involved. if they are not feeling up to doing particular routes they simply would wait until they were feeling better/ fitter/ stronger etc. If they took a tumble im bet they would not try and blame anyone else for the accident. i have a lot of respect for them for this reason.
perhaps attitudes like yours are part of the reason oz is a nanny state. climbing safely is about gaining the necessary skills to be safe, not rely on other climbers to make it safe for you.

>"I for one was in the Bungles one Easter when it was raining intermitently. To the disappointment of my group, I refused to lead any of the big climbs because I felt the risk was too great, and wasn't keen on losing a ton of gear if we had to bail."

i'm not sure what you are try to say. that you would have taken the risk if you knew you could simply rap off if it started to rain or that other climbers should also use their brains as you did and make a sensible decision.

what has happened in the European alps is very interesting and certainly warrants more discussion. i climbed with a German climber once. he out climbed me with his eyes closed. except for placing gear. he had even done several alpine rock routes but had never placed any trad gear. when i saw him the day before he flew home (after 12months in aus) he thanked me/us for introducing him to trad and told me he was going to buy a full rack once he got back. not sure if it has any real relevance on this thread but an interesting experience i had and thought i would share.

i know it only happened on a couple of routes in the bungles but do these added bolts start a trend to place bolts on all the climbs out there? it certainly wouldn't happen over 12 months but in 10years?

the reason i am so emotional about what has happen out there is because of how big a part of my development as a climber the bungles has played. it was where i did my first FULL trad multipitch climbs. i was introduced to simul-climbing there, i had to make my first real retreats, leaving gear behind.(once on CR when it rained and a second time on bluff mtn when the climbing got to scary/hard midway through the third pitch). i also did my first night climb on CR.
the skills that i learnt through these experiences certainly helped me a great deal when i went to nz.
does the addition of these bolts remove the opportunity for future climbers to have the same experiences and develop these skills before heading into more serious environments?