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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Author
Haul bag advice
dhunchak
14-Jan-2016
10:36:15 AM
Hi, need some advice on haul bags for a trip I'm taking to North America this year. I have no prior aid climbing or hauling experience, and on this trip will be focusing mostly on long free climbs. However there may be some more aid intensive routes if I dig it, and there will almost certainly be a few overnights. Destinations include: Moab / Zion, Yosemite, Squamish and the Bugaboos / Washington Pass. I don't envision planning to take longer than 2 or 3 days at the most for any route.

My question is whether it is preferable to have one large haul bag, or two smaller ones. Given I prefer a fast and light approach and am not averse to long days, I feel I will most often be using a single smaller bag, hauling it rather than carrying if the grade is hard. My concern is that for very long / hard (for me) routes in the bugaboos especially, it may be too cumbersome to haul two bags and a portaledge simultaneously. Will the extra sideways bulk / straps get hung up on everything or can it run smoothly with some care in packaging?

The bags I'm looking at are the FISH atom smasher deluxe (38 + 18 Litres - two of them) vs the FISH grade V (84 Litres). Link here: http://www.fishproducts.com/catalog/haul_bags.html

While I'm at it, I also considered forgoing the ledge and just getting some hammocks. 600gms x2 for the Grand Trunk hybrid shelter (https://grandtrunk.com/shop/all-terrain-hybrid-shelter/) vs 6.5kgs for the FISH double whammy. Will I hate my life in a hammock? I want to have fun up there and cuddling frozen granite seems like no fun, but hauling seems like no fun too. Lesser of two evils is....? By the way, I plan to not use the portaledge very often, but it seems like it might be a pretty fun way to spend a few nights on certain routes.

Thanks for the advice
One Day Hero
14-Jan-2016
11:18:58 AM
The approach in the Bugs breaks bodies. My pommy mate got it in his head to do some big walling up there and carried all the shit up the hill (despite the rest of us heckling him endlessly). He didn't use any of it, and was full of regret and sore knees.

It didn't really seem like the sort of place to spend nights on the wall.......all the classic routes have hundreds of meters of really easy climbing, it's not that hard to zip up them in a day.

The good Dr
14-Jan-2016
11:59:21 AM
If you have not hauled or done long aid routes before I would recommend doing some before you go over as it can be more back breaking and funtime reducing than you think. best to work out if you hate it here than spend the cash and find out you hate it over there.

Otherwise I would recommend a ledge over a hammock. More comfort, quick to set up and easire to arrange than hammocks (eg if you are in a corner or at a compact anchor). Better if you get stuck in a storm or it is raining.

Unless you are doing really long routes (days wise) one large and one small haul bag may be a better option. A small bag may see you through a single overnight if you are effiecent and is easier to haul and carry. Having two large bags for a 2-3 day route is overkill unless you are carrying lots of beer and ice in one of the bags. One large bag should have enough room for an ascent covering 3 days. Water is the heaviest thing you have to carry. If you are hauling 2 bags it is also a good idea to spread the water between 2 bags both for weight distribution and in case you 'lose' the other bag.

ajfclark
14-Jan-2016
12:03:25 PM
What's 'lose' a euphamism for in this con-text other than losing the bag?

[con-text is hyphenated because chockstone thinks it's a naughty word]
Lee C
14-Jan-2016
12:51:48 PM
On 14/01/2016 The good Dr wrote:
>If you have not hauled or done long aid routes before I would recommend
>doing some before you go over as it can be more back breaking and funtime
>reducing than you think. best to work out if you hate it here than spend
>the cash and find out you hate it over there.

This is good advice but not the type that leads to having your own wisdom ;)

A couple of things...
Once you're hauling anything more than a bag that you can hand-haul things become much slower. Thing is that the hauling does not get drastically slower by carrying a few extra luxury's (i.e. portaledge etc.). Going slow and heavy works well if you are really set on strict free climbing on pitches that are relatively hard for you.

For this reason I'd almost opt for either doing things in a single long push with a hand haul bag and no bivi gear OR do things over 3(+) days. It is a personal choice but the work involved in hauling heavy stuff can easily be spent moving faster and doing a few more pitches in a push. Also, even most tricky long free routes are typically only hard for a few pitches max. As far as whether to get a medium or large bag, I'd be more inclined to go bigger if you're going to spend more than 2 days on the wall. It is not unreasonable to use two big bags on a 4+ day route. It just makes them easier to sort when at hanging belays because they're not as full.

Have fun!!
johny
15-Jan-2016
5:45:22 PM
You could answer this question yourself by simply deciding on which climbs you are planning to climb and the style you are climbing them in. Many routes on el cap (freerider/salathe) do not require a portaledge. For example if you are not planning on climbing any offwidths on your trip, you would not pack 5 #6 camalots right? So what climbs are you going to get on, how many days, etc. If you want to "be prepared" and play it by ear (pretty silly) then of course just buy all that kit and drag it around.

Yeah the good drs advice is bang on. Why don't you try hauling and big walling here first before you buy all that crap? My mate had his heart set on The Nose route this June but after climbing Ozy recently he gave up on the big wall aiding idea.

As far as FISH gear I have never used it but I have used Middendorf's old A5 monster which is basically the same as FISH. Middendorf gave FISH his templates and I highly rate the A5 bag I have. I bought it used in excellent shape for $80usd in camp four car park. You could probably do the same.

After you have decided on which climbs you are going to try (this should have been like the first thing to do) then Lee's advice is really good. Take more than you think you need. The weight is not a prob if you know how to haul. Always pack the haulbag full.
dhunchak
15-Jan-2016
7:46:16 PM
Thanks for the input all. Yup, trying to do things in a single push is how I've always worked, and it sounds like that's not going to change too much. Spending either 1 or 4 days is an interesting concept I'll give some thought to.

Thanks for the beta on the bugs approach ODH, I have been broken by approaches in the past and am always keen to avoid the experience where possible. My mate advised me to be finished in time for late arvo storms, so camping out seemed ill advised from that perspective as well. Still, it seems like there are a plethora of grade 6 routes to do; but you're right, they tend not to be the classics.

Don't worry Johny, I've got more routes in mind than a bored accountant would read on double time :)

Not sure I'm sold on this 'try it first in Australia' solution. If I buy gear here and love it, won't I just have to ship it over? And if I hate it, how has this avoided me wasting money? Seems like you gotta start somewhere, and that where could be any where. Perhaps I could borrow some of this stuff you say? I agree.

I'll certainly take on board the message that once you're hauling, added weight doesn't slow you down too much. I thought I had read to the contrary, but I guess I'll just have to find out.

Conclusions: Probably won't fuss with a portalege, I was far from sold on the necessity anyway. I think reading between the lines, it sounds like hauling two small bags won't be much more likely to snag, so I'll probably go that option given I'll be doing much more day trip action.


Thanks again

IdratherbeclimbingM9
16-Jan-2016
3:33:18 PM
On 15/01/2016 dhunchak wrote:
>Thanks for the input all. Yup, trying to do things in a single push is
>how I've always worked, and it sounds like that's not going to change too
>much. Spending either 1 or 4 days is an interesting concept I'll give some
>thought to.
>
>Thanks for the beta on the bugs approach ODH, I have been broken by approaches
>in the past and am always keen to avoid the experience where possible.
>My mate advised me to be finished in time for late arvo storms, so camping
>out seemed ill advised from that perspective as well. Still, it seems like
>there are a plethora of grade 6 routes to do; but you're right, they tend
>not to be the classics.
>
>Don't worry Johny, I've got more routes in mind than a bored accountant
>would read on double time :)
>
>Not sure I'm sold on this 'try it first in Australia' solution. If I buy
>gear here and love it, won't I just have to ship it over? And if I hate
>it, how has this avoided me wasting money? Seems like you gotta start somewhere,
>and that where could be any where. Perhaps I could borrow some of this
>stuff you say? I agree.
>
>I'll certainly take on board the message that once you're hauling, added
>weight doesn't slow you down too much. I thought I had read to the contrary,
>but I guess I'll just have to find out.
>
>Conclusions: Probably won't fuss with a portalege, I was far from sold
>on the necessity anyway. I think reading between the lines, it sounds like
>hauling two small bags won't be much more likely to snag, so I'll probably
>go that option given I'll be doing much more day trip action.
>
>
>Thanks again

The replies to this thread are excellent.

Re the 'try it in Oz first' option; if you want to get your act together on (say) Ozymandias at Mt Buffalo, then I live reasonably local to it and am happy to loan you haulbags (I have various sizes) to try out. That way you can buy overseas if that is your wish afterwards.

On a related note, you can always use an Australian bought haulbag to send you kit overseas within... Simply put a couple of cable-ties on it to secure the enclosure and it would be good to go as freight I'd expect...

Re added weight slowing you down.
I find that added weight invariably involves more kit and this has consequences.
The worst consequence is murdering the impossible by over-kitting it into submission.

When it comes to large haulbags, someone sensibly posted above that you don't have to fill the haulbag. ~> Excellent advice, though seldom achieved within my experience; as I have found generally that 'space begets weight'!!!
Another hassle I have found with large haulbags is (on hanging belays in particular and more so with short-reach partners); that stuff in the bottom of them can actually be hard to retrieve!
On that note, everything is harder to do on a hanging belay than on flat ground.
;-)

On whether using one or two bags and them snagging...
This is more a function of the haul-line directissima and any bushes or sub-rooflets encountered on that line.

In a nutshell my opinion (from experience) can be summed up as; more (kit, gear, whatever) = less, when it comes to the overall experience.
Jayford4321
19-Jan-2016
2:53:50 PM
dont haul.
go fast an lite.
even a small bag will slow up Ur ascents, an a small bag wont hold enough to make a bivy any more tolerable than wot U wshould carry on a long multipitch anyway.

There are 9 messages in this topic.

 

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