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Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

what's the matter with keyhole hangers?
12:42:10 PM
On 21/11/2013 Macciza wrote:
>What is the problem with 'hangerless' glued-in bolts?? When used with
>rated hangers??

Keyhole hangers rated to 22 kN (between 2 biners) fail at 3 to 10 kN. Or come off. Not a good solution.
1:08:08 PM
what about if you clamp them tight with a trubolt?
1:11:20 PM
or hold them in place with a big dribble of glue?
One Day Hero
3:10:33 PM
On 21/11/2013 mikllaw wrote:
>Keyhole hangers rated to 22 kN (between 2 biners) fail at 3 to 10 kN.
>Or come off. Not a good solution.

Really? 3kN? I've never seen the drooped over carrot cutting the hanger situation actually happen. Even with biggish wingers off Toyland before the rebolt, there didn't seem to be any damage at all. Got an example of it happening in real life?

Yes, they come off when euros use skinny biners, but wires also fall out when they aren't seated properly and cams slide out of glassy cracks at arapiles.........when incompetent climbers misuse the gear, accidents will happen. I'm not sure that this is good justification for ringbolting the whole planet.

4:44:19 PM
Wasn't there one that inverted and peeled off the bolt at KP?

[edit: ]
5:01:15 PM
On 22/11/2013 ajfclark wrote:
>Wasn't there one that inverted and peeled off the bolt at KP?
I think you mean one inverted and came off a bolt when KP peeled. Somewhere near Buandik, Neil and KP would remember. There's a post on here somewhere about it.

edit : I stand corrected. Had a quick look for the post about the gramps incident but can't find it. M9, I've got a job for you.

5:14:06 PM
I don't get the anti keyhole hanger thing either. For overhung, chalked up sport crags, I agree no question. But for vertical or slab routes I don't see the problem.

Surely a 10mm glue in stainless bolt won't droop over full stop, let a lone cut the hanger.
Even skinny biners won't easily come off a bolt with a 17mm head (still has to jiggle to just the right spot). Undersized bolt heads only count as bad bolting. A wire gate has to rotate until it's cross loaded for the hanger to be able to come off, a dangerous situation regardless.
The one and only time I had a draw fall off a bolt was when I dragged my foot past a ring! bolt and it self unclipped. And I'm not the only one who has done that before.
A hanger can fail if it is flipped upside down, sure - just make sure that doesn't happen. That much flailing about will flick out a sinker nut anyway. Likewise, a biner can fail at 7kn cross loaded, or even 2kn if catches and levers between the fixed hanger and nut, or in overly recessed ubolt/ringbolt, or against rock protusion.
On a mixed route a key hole hanger is still more bomber than the most sinker nut placement.

Considering all of the risk factors, using the correct materials and procedures, I only consider a keyhole hanger only very marginally less safe. I'm aware of their weaknesses and am a little more vigilant about how the draw sits and jiggling the rope too much.

Way more things to go wrong to worry about.
5:16:08 PM
On 22/11/2013 ajfclark wrote:
>Wasn't there one that inverted and peeled off the bolt at KP?
> ]

Andrew: Just as an aside, that route (love hurts @ kangaroo point) has glue in ring bolts now.

6:09:47 PM
This is coming from someone that only installs rings and dislikes carrots and avoid when I can..but seriously its rock climbing, like all things in climbing a punter just has to weigh up the risk..if a route has glue in carrots (or any fixed gear) they can determine if they have the skill and equipment thats makes em feel safe other wise just don't climb it..if they don't have those skills to weigh up the risks, they shouldn't be out there..shit it ain't kindergarten.

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