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a small study of unclipping from keyhole hangers

One Day HEro

18-Jan-2011
1:21:01 PM

On 18/01/2011 mikllaw wrote:
>
>Rather than rely on hearsay, I thought I'd do some limited testing. It's
>all info.

I wasn't ragging on you Mike, but the chorus of "oh wow, glad you worked it all out mike, now we know exactly whats safe and what isn't, and we can blindly wander out there without thinking"

What people need to do is get their draws and their hangers and test them at the crag. There's even a nice ground-carrot on the lunch boulder that you can play around with while Barry spends 45mins trying to leave the ground on 80 minute hour.


voodoo

18-Jan-2011
2:02:18 PM

On 18/01/2011 One Day HEro wrote:
>I wasn't ragging on you Mike, but the chorus of "oh wow, glad you worked
>it all out mike, now we know exactly whats safe and what isn't, and we
>can blindly wander out there without thinking"

You must be seeing what you want to see, because I haven't actually seen anyone make that comment yet.


hangdog

18-Jan-2011
2:49:01 PM

On 18/01/2011 voodoo wrote:
>On 18/01/2011 One Day HEro wrote:
>>I wasn't ragging on you Mike, but the chorus of "oh wow, glad you worked
>>it all out mike, now we know exactly whats safe and what isn't, and we
>>can blindly wander out there without thinking"
>
>You must be seeing what you want to see, because I haven't actually seen
>anyone make that comment yet.

This guy ODH makes a habit of seeing what he wants to see.

mikllaw

18-Jan-2011
3:58:51 PM

On 18/01/2011 One Day HEro wrote:
>What people need to do is get their draws and their hangers and test them
>at the crag.

Good idea. Once you've unclipped one you'll satrt thinking "Am I feeling lucky punk? Well am I?"

One Day Hero

18-Jan-2011
11:53:11 PM

On 18/01/2011 mikllaw wrote:
>Good idea. Once you've unclipped one you'll satrt thinking "Am I feeling
>lucky punk? Well am I?"

Yeah, maybe......and they will know a bit more about how their gear goes, rather than how your gear goes.

It's really funny how Mike owns the science on this site. I've done exactly the same (and I mean exactly the same, minus the lobster) testing at the crag. I got a variety of biners and hangers, and tested the combo's on all the different bolt head sizes/sticky-outness I could find.

When I say the new carrots on 80 min hour are bomber, its not cause I eyeballed 'em from a distance and said "yeah, she looks right as rain to me". I got up there and tried to see if I could fiddle my draws (and my mates draws) off one of the bolts. The answer is 'No' (old clog + BD keylock, with PFH 45 + RP 90)

A table is not the easiest way to comunicate the simple info involved, a table does not add extra sciencyness!

Wiregates = Bad

Spirits = Bad (although, in practice they don't ping off much........mike, chris has been clipping carrots with spirits for 10years with no drop offs. He'll get one eventually, but it's not nearly as common as with wiregates)

Small headed carrots (eg, the retro bolts on Turning of the Tide, Pt Perp) = Be a bit careful, test to see if your gear can come off, try to use PFH rather than RP brackets...............in fact, RP brackets are shittier all round

Very sticky-outy carrots = test a few representative examples at the crag to see what works best, they are still fine as long as you don't blindly clip and go.

That's all the info which is contained in Mike's table, 4 simple points..........which can be refined to 1 simple point (test your own stuff on the bolts at the crag, before trusting your life to 'em)

rightarmbad

19-Jan-2011
11:06:14 AM

That's funny, I've found RP 45's to be the best, any 90 deg to be the worst and PFH 45's a pain in the arse to fit on some bolts.

( sorry in advance for any paranoid persecution syndrome persons that feel that saying pain in the arse may be taken as a slight on people that enjoy a bit of that sort of thing )


IdratherbeclimbingM9

29-Apr-2015
9:42:39 AM

On 18/01/2011 kieranl wrote:
>Thanks Mikl.
>It does make it clear that carrots requiring removable hangers have some safety issues that bolts without some sort of fixed hanger don't. So, all other things being equal, something with a fixed or integral hanger should be used.
>n.b. "All other things" include, but are not restricted to, visual impact and the likelihood of being lynched.

Bumping an old topic but one that still has relevance, and probably more so to a few new readers on this site now.

A question for kieranl. Would not the issue be narrow profile krabs in any kind of hangar?

kieranl

29-Apr-2015
10:18:07 AM

On 29/04/2015 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 18/01/2011 kieranl wrote:
>>Thanks Mikl.
>>It does make it clear that carrots requiring removable hangers have some
>safety issues that bolts without some sort of fixed hanger don't. So, all
>other things being equal, something with a fixed or integral hanger should
>be used.
>>n.b. "All other things" include, but are not restricted to, visual impact
>and the likelihood of being lynched.
>
>Bumping an old topic but one that still has relevance, and probably more
>so to a few new readers on this site now.
>
>A question for kieranl. Would not the issue be narrow profile krabs in
>any kind of hangar?
Not sure what the point is here M9. A fixed hanger isn't going to come off a bolt just because it's clipped with narrow profile krab. And you don't want to get the gate of any krab to rotate into the eye of any bolt that you're using


IdratherbeclimbingM9

29-Apr-2015
10:28:40 AM

It seems we are on the same page then, as I might have misunderstood your post, ie it seemed to me you were referring to hangars coming off bolts, and mikl was mainly focussing on krabs detaching themselves from hangars?

kieranl

29-Apr-2015
10:42:07 AM

On 29/04/2015 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>It seems we are on the same page then, as I might have misunderstood your
>post, ie it seemed to me you were referring to hangars coming off bolts,
>and mikl was mainly focussing on krabs detaching themselves from hangars?
I read Mikls posts as referring to hangers coming off bolts if the wrong krab is used? is Mikl there to adjudicate?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

29-Apr-2015
11:12:13 AM

>is Mikl there to adjudicate?

In hindsight I guess due both being dangerous possibilities, that the point is moot.

mikllaw

29-Apr-2015
1:13:07 PM

On 29/04/2015 kieranl wrote:
?
>I read Mikls posts as referring to hangers coming off bolts if the wrong
>krab is used? is Mikl there to adjudicate?

yes, I used to hear of it about twice a year, but less now. Perhaps because I'm not climbing


JamesMc

29-Apr-2015
9:10:38 PM

Not being very brave, l sometimes clip a second krab into the bracket if it's a small headed 3/8" bolt just to make sure the hole is full.

rightarmbad

30-Apr-2015
11:32:50 AM

Dropping a second biner in there can also cause more problems as the two biners can interact, get caught and then get torqed in a fall breaking either gates or spines.

Have a selection of plates and use bigger biners.

There are 34 messages in this topic.