Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Trip Reports

Tells Us About Your Latest Trip!

Author

Aiding Inquisition at Araps

...

28-Jun-2008
9:57:59 AM


muki

28-Jun-2008
4:35:39 PM

On 28/06/2008 ti wrote:

> When I reached the top, I found a very faded cord attached to two carrot bolts.
>To descend, I used the cord and attached a bail 'biner (but thought this was dubious).

Stay alive longer, always avoid using mank to lower yourself down to the ground.

fish boy

28-Jun-2008
4:45:06 PM

Fifi hooks helps on steep terrain as you can rest off your daisy etc..and adjust how high you are.

I am trying to get started in solo aiding now, so i wont give you any advice....


sliamese

28-Jun-2008
5:26:39 PM

forget about fifi hook, adjustable daisies are the go! as soon as it gets steep it can be quite hard to get fifi hooks in the appropriate bit of the daisy/biner. they are cheaper than adjustables but you wont regret spending the extra cash!! heres a basic rundown of how ive been solo-aiding;
when your moving up the way its best if you have 4 aiders, makes tricky sections much much easier. i have two 'sets' of aiders, so that theres always two free for the next piece. i have one biner on each aider, one aider becomes the 'high' aider. in the high aider i clip the other aider and my daisy. the biner on the high aider becomes the main biner of that set, being used to clip to the next piece and also back to the chest harness while i use my other pair. this means theres always a pair ready to just grab and chuck on a piece so you can test and stand on it. in terms of belaying i just use a gri-gri. i dont modify mine because theres no need, my friend Nick also just uses this system. i tie one end in as usual and thread the device. i coil all the rope over a metolius rope hook at the belay, making sure the other end is on the bottom and the coils get shorter and shorter so they dont snag on each other. i then set off with the tail in just dangling back to the coil. once im 8m out or so there will be a bit of wait, enough to stop the rope feeding easily. i then just pull up a bunch of slack and tie an overhand in it so i can clip it to myself. this allows the rope to feed easily. also if you have a rope bag you can put on your back, it would be great!! this system allows rope to feed easily enough, and means you dont have to have a chest harness on, because they just suck!! the other key piece of advice is just go out and do it!! talk to others that can suggest good progressions for you. the best way to learn i found was to read as much as i could about it then go out and try different things. it results in a lot of clusterf---s but you'll sort it out!! i just got back from yosemite, having soloed Zodiac and Mescalito on el cap, its the most rewarding thing ever, can highly reccomend it! also being prepared to suffer like a starving third world dog helps!!


muki

28-Jun-2008
5:29:41 PM

You don't need fifi hooks if you use the gri gri as a self adjusting daisy.
Quicker when it comes to doing any free moves in between full blown aid as well.
some others have asked about solo aiding or rope solo, look up www.bigwalls.net site, the rope solo
article is what your after, loads of other info as well.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

28-Jun-2008
8:43:17 PM

I agree with bp regarding use of fixed tatt being a dangerous practice.

Unlike some posts above I find a chest harness to be particularly effective for solo aid. Apart from having more flexibility as to where I can rack gear, I can connect it to the sit harness to provide a particularly comfy support for aiding through roofs and for jumaring/cleaning of pitches.

I have more recently started using an adjustable fifi, but I am not overly fond of it. Tensioning up is OK but if I want to slack it off then it is a bear to deal with sometimes! I have decided to get the best of both systems, by using it alongside my other fifis (two on different length loops). I tend to only use the adjustable one for very long reaches, and find that the short ones are set specifically to my balance point when standing in third and second steps, so they help dramatically in not ' twisting/ revolving', particularly if fified into the piece directly rather than the daisy.

I too use double ett sets, but have them clipped to one krab. sliamese post indicates he prefers to have one higher. In my experience this causes one to stand slightly out of balance (due one being higher), and it annoys me too much to ever want to do a significant amount of aiding in that fashion. My daisy connects with a separate krab into the ett top-loop connection point, and I don't find it interferes with the 'working krab', ie the one holding both etts.

ti wrote:
>The process was nothing short of an exhilarating and mind altering experience.
Great to hear that you enjoyed the experience and appreciate the art!

>I can't fathom how you're able to balance on skyhooks?!?
Fifi in short. If the placement is good for the hook (ie not trying to skate off the rock), your bodyweight will be stable and close enough to help it stay put. Dual etts allows you to space your feet enough that you can use your knees against the rock for extra stability. I have found that with a long fifi loop you can even top-step off a hook by holding the fifi loop in one hand kind of like an undercling hold, and stretch out for significant extra reach with your free hand for the next placement. This only works if you maintain your weight on the hook, as any appreciable side loading (caused by reaching to far to the side), or outward loading (leaning too far back), will likely cause it to blow.

>Are there methods to aid to minimize amount of exertion?
Not really other than using balance. It is as important to aid as it is to free climbing!

>Also, on roofs/overhanging walls how do you prevent yourself from twisting/ revolving (or do you just let it happen)?

Roofs can be particularly strenuous, but I have found that using a fifi on a long loop that is connected to harness but passed up behind my chest loop front strap, and then fified to the daisy on the piece allows me to stand upright (still in balance), even though free of the wall. You can even lean quite a distance sideways to make the next placement with this technique! It helps to have your chest harness also connected to your sit harness while doing this, to prevent it 'riding up' under your chin!!
If you are well clear of the rock and find yourself revolving; ... take the time to enjoy the view and appreciate your location!!

>Any tips on aiding technique and solo aiding set ups?
I have tried many. Until I got my Silent Partner, I found a running clove hitch worked OK most of the time, with another on a backup loop to allow me to 'drop' the one I am on if it started to prove difficult for a particular move.

>And what systematic approach do others take ie: place gear, attach etrier, attach daisy chain, attach rope repeat... etc...

Place gear; attach ett/daisy combo set; test placement if necessary (from lowest step in the combo); place quickdraw if necessary (but don't clip the rope yet); march on up and fifi to the piece; ... now clip the rope, because the piece is level with your tie in to harness and minimal effort is required lifting rope to clip, ... only to have it go slack on you as soon as you step up!; eye up the next placement/s, and if thin/hard aid, most likely get the next bit/s of pro required ready (sometimes even pre-clipped to the second set of aider/daisy combo!); try as hard as you can to get as high as you can in your aiders (disconnect fifi if necessary, or change fifis, or extend if adjustable), to make the next placement as high as you can! This may require close inspection of the placement and cleaning of it prior to making the placement, and on awkward stuff can sometimes require back-stepping to rest, or even downstepping to a lower step to 'consolidate/organise/recover!'

>I'm so comfortable with this site that it makes me linger.
Good to hear that it is sufficiently worthwhile to make you feel that way.

simey

29-Jun-2008
10:21:45 AM

Hey Ti,
Nice work doing Inquisition. Looks like you have received a lot of good feedback, particularly from Sliamese.

As for descents... don't assume all descents to be straightforward and all guidebooks to be accurate. And not all climbs are equipped with convenient rap anchors. Descending safely in all conditions is an important skill in climbing and in many cases you might choose to ignore what a guidebook says and use your own judgement to get down safely.

As for the descent off Inquisition... well it sounds like those bolts were pretty convenient (probably placed as anchors for the bolted projects next door). Sometimes carrying a few slings tied with a tape knot (as opposed to sewn) are handy for leaving behind during descents. Not only are they cheaper, but you can thread them through bolts or pitons and then retie them. And there is no need to leave a biner if you are prepared to sacrifice the sling, but if you plan to retrieve the sling later, then use a biner so you don't trash the sling by pulling your rope through it.

PS. And what do you mean when you say that you are a short girl that has no strength?!! You short people are always the strongest when it comes to power to weight. It is 90 kilo guys like me that are comparitively weak.

kieranl

29-Jun-2008
9:47:36 PM

Great stuff Ti.
What's next, Melanoma?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

30-Jun-2008
9:36:20 AM

>Great stuff Ti.
I agree.
Is a trip report forthcoming?
... It is always good to follow the exploits of others to see the game through new eyes.

sliamese wrote;
>in terms of belaying i just use a gri-gri. i dont modify mine because theres no need,

OK now I'm curious and find this concept interesting, although I don't use a gri gri myself.

Why do you think that many before you who reckoned it a good idea to modify a gri gri for soloing, are now perhaps wrong?

:)

fish boy

30-Jun-2008
10:43:31 AM

Two sets of aiders, two sets of daisies???

I have only aided with one set....


IdratherbeclimbingM9

30-Jun-2008
10:46:05 AM

It's a gear freak thing!

Heh, heh, heh.

There are many forms of aiding technique and you can get by with a lot less, but for rolls royce convenience (especially if you are into extended sojourns), then the dual setups are hard to beat.


Phil Box

30-Jun-2008
10:47:30 AM

On 28/06/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I have more recently started using an adjustable fifi, but I am not overly
>fond of it. Tensioning up is OK but if I want to slack it off then it is
>a bear to deal with sometimes! I have decided to get the best of both systems,
>by using it alongside my other fifis (two on different length loops). I
>tend to only use the adjustable one for very long reaches, and find that
>the short ones are set specifically to my balance point when standing in
>third and second steps, so they help dramatically in not ' twisting/ revolving',
>particularly if fified into the piece directly rather than the daisy.

What sort of adjustable Fifi's are you using. The Metolius are a bear to unload whereas the Yates are a breeze. Go with the Yates adjustable Fifi" and you'll never go back to any other sort of Fifi. Those combined with Russian Aiders is definitely the way to go.

fish boy

30-Jun-2008
10:48:23 AM

Is it MORE important to have two sets of ets when hooking for the added benfit of still having your legs spread on the ets attached to your hook?

Does that make sense?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

30-Jun-2008
10:51:25 AM

>Is it MORE important to have two sets of ets when hooking for the added benfit of still having your legs spread on the ets attached to your hook?

Only from the point of view of stability. If the hook is good then it probably doesn't matter, but for a dodgy hook placement better body stability minimises potential dislodgement of it. On some sketchy placements I have found it beneficial to form a sort of triangle with my feet; ie toes against the rock (in separate etts), but heels braced against each other.
This technique also works for situations other than face climbing. Not dis-similar to T-stacking your feet in offwidths, ie one can use the wall features to minimise feet skating which may lead to adverse sideways loading of a fragile hook placement.

Phil Box wrote;
>What sort of adjustable Fifi's are you using.

Kong.
~> ... Obviously need to chase down a pair of Yates ones, and relegate the Kong one to haulbag usage!

gfdonc

30-Jun-2008
12:07:40 PM

I like this concept of Russian aiders. Where did you get yours from Phil?

Anyone still making them?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

30-Jun-2008
12:12:46 PM

... probably the Russians?
Heh, heh, heh.

Sounds like you are about to dust off the aid gear again ... ?


Pat

30-Jun-2008
12:48:19 PM

On 30/06/2008 gfdonc wrote:
>I like this concept of Russian aiders. Where did you get yours from Phil?
>
>Anyone still making them?
>

I checked out a few online gear shops. Still seem to be supplying differing forms of them. With a bit of
know how - you could probably make your self a good set. I think Trango are making them.


Phil Box

30-Jun-2008
1:10:53 PM

I think it was Trango that used to make them. I got my Russians before they stopped making them. Awesome for those real highsteps particularly for overhanging terrain. Always feel in balance with them. Good thing is that you can hook the cuffs directly into a piece.

rockclimbing.com aid climbing forum has some info on how to make Russians at home. Google search it and I am sure you should find the info you need.

PDRM

30-Jun-2008
1:36:11 PM

>What sort of adjustable Fifi's are you using. The Metolius are a bear
>to unload whereas the Yates are a breeze. Go with the Yates adjustable
>Fifi" and you'll never go back to any other sort of Fifi. Those combined
>with Russian Aiders is definitely the way to go.

Pika (http://www.pikamtn.com/pages.html) also make some really good aid gear including adjustable daisys and Josh the guy who runs it is very helpful. Some of it such as the specialist hooks like the wedge hooks they make themselves are great and only available through them as far as I know.

.M

gfdonc

30-Jun-2008
1:41:56 PM

On 30/06/2008 Phil Box wrote:
>I think it was Trango that used to make them. I got my Russians before
Yeah but not any more.

>rockclimbing.com aid climbing forum has some info on how to make Russians
>at home. Google search it and I am sure you should find the info you need.
I think I've seen that. The sewing is easy; the titanium metalworking might be a bit of a struggle.

There are 34 messages in this topic.