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TR: Alive in a Bitter Sea (Katoomba Cliffs)

technogeekery

14-Dec-2016
1:12:57 PM

Yay, they kissed and made up.

I'm always interested in these kinds of ethical or stylistic debates, even if they are quite academic to someone of my limited climbing ability. Its interesting to see how the body of people who call themselves climbers has changed over the decades, and how few "climbers" today give a rats about this kind of argument - they have no interest in this kind of climbing.

Anyway, enough hijacking - thanks for another great trip report, and one that has sparked some lively debate, unearthed a couple of climbosaurs and given some great insight into our local climbing history!


Nmonteith

14-Dec-2016
6:31:54 PM

FYI there is a decade old ringbolted sport route straight up the wall 10m left of Alive in the Bitter Sea. It still doesn't seem to get any traffic. Probably because it appears to be an abandonded project. And no, you can see the bolts from the 3 Sisters lookout.

simey

14-Dec-2016
9:47:12 PM

On 14/12/2016 One Day Hero wrote:
>I think you're stuck in the 90's, Simey. The climbing world has dramatically
>changed, and you're tilting at windmills which have long since stopped
>spinning.

I was just getting something out of my system from 25 years ago.

In 25 years you will probably still be banging on about bolted squeeze jobs at Point Perp (not that I disagree with you).

As for all that other stuff, well I acknowledge change in climbing, so I don't think that I am stuck in the past. Finding that balance though is always going to see some clashes. Conflict however is particularly difficult for sensitive souls like you and I.

>Fark, even Father O (your finest contribution to climbing, i.m.o.) had
>a pretty shitty re/retrobolt job done recently.

I should have taken responsibility for replacing the bolts on my own route. But I will happily complain about a shitty rebolt on other Taipan Wall classics.

>Get your priorities sorted. There's a lot of bolting crimes which I'd
>love to remedy, and the Katoomba cliff scary routes don't make the list.

We should form an alliance. Need to come up with a catchy name or acronym. Can you see if Wallwombat and Doug want to join too?

PThomson

16-Dec-2016
10:19:18 PM

Nmonteith -

While Duncan and Dan's project next to Bitter Sea IS on ringbolts, but it's a LONG way from being a sport route. It has about 10 bolts over the 70m length, the rest of which is on gear, with climbing on the sections that have been freed purportedly in the 26+ category (and the rest of it STILL a Project, which might be indicative of its difficulty). Harder climbing on a less trafficked route with similar runouts still sounds very much like a Headpoint Route to me.

Secondly, while the bolts may NOT be visible from Honeymoon Point, I personally was buzzed by 3 drones operated from the Echo Point viewing platform, and observed 2 more being launched when I was above the route. Though obviously a substantially smaller proportion of tourists can see the wall, any actions taken on that wall (with respect to retro-ing, modifying, etc) ARE still potentially visible, and from a closer range. Furthermore, since the drones operate GoPro's, the -relatively- close-up footage of any in situ equipment on that wall is more permanent and more likely to be distributed.

My point being that I believe that any actions taken on that wall need to be done discretely, and with the goal of NOT drawing awareness to our presence in the area. I did my bolting and grinding at night for that reason. Extreme? Maybe... But *I'm* not going to be the one to get climbing banned in a sensitive area.

-Paul

widewetandslippery

16-Dec-2016
10:35:34 PM

drones = orange gun


wallwombat

16-Dec-2016
11:27:48 PM

On 14/12/2016 One Day Hero wrote:

>I think you're stuck in the 90's, Simey.

No shit. Sherlock?


ajfclark

17-Dec-2016
8:50:16 AM

On 16/12/2016 PThomson wrote:
>My point being that I believe that any actions taken on that wall need to be done discretely, and with the goal of NOT drawing awareness to our presence in the area. I did my bolting and grinding at night for that reason. Extreme? Maybe... But *I'm* not going to be the one to get climbing banned in a sensitive area.

And then posted about it on a public forum on the internet? Super discrete.


pmonks

17-Dec-2016
9:20:23 AM

On 17/12/2016 ajfclark wrote:
>And then posted about it on a public forum on the internet? Super discrete.

I mean I love Chockstone as much as the next 150kg couch potato web surfer who calls himself a climber, but I think you might be overselling its prominence just a tad...

PThomson

17-Dec-2016
9:58:40 AM

On 17/12/2016 ajfclark wrote:
>And then posted about it on a public forum on the internet? Super discrete.

It's hilarious how, in your head (for some strange reason), there's an equivalency between "Angle grinding and drilling within 30 metres of the most visited lookout in all of Australia, while in full view of the public" and "discussing how best to manage sensitive issues on an obscure rock-climbing forum".


ajfclark

17-Dec-2016
3:44:26 PM

I just thought it was funny that on one hand you were being all cloak and dagger and on the other you weren't. To me, this is also full view of the public, yes. Not as wide a range as the lookout, but still public.

widewetandslippery

17-Dec-2016
3:53:28 PM

for what its worth if you can,t find your own 100m orange wall in the mountains that has grade 20 to 30 routes on it you aren,t trying.


tnd

19-Dec-2016
1:03:52 PM

People should stop using "discrete" when they mean "discreet".

Pthomson

19-Dec-2016
4:12:40 PM

On 19/12/2016 tnd wrote:
>People should stop using "discrete" when they mean "discreet".
>

huh... You're right. I honestly didn't realise:

discrete
dɪˈskriːt/
adjective
adjective: discrete

Individually separate and distinct.

existed.

I'm now edumicated.

- Paul T

technogeekery

19-Dec-2016
4:25:17 PM

Yes, they are discrete words.


ajfclark

20-Dec-2016
8:45:37 AM

On 19/12/2016 tnd wrote:
>People should stop using "discrete" when they mean "discreet".

Thanks. TIL. Two Es hiding together are discreet. Two Es split by a T are discrete.

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