Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Arapiles	The Atridae	(General)	Main Wall	[ Arapiles Guide \| Arapiles Images ]

Author

Bolt on Atridae Wall?

robertsonja

1-Jul-2009
4:20:26 PM

There is a carrot bolt on Atridae Wall just to the right of the start of Surface of Air.

I don't think that this is a new bolt but begs the questions.

What is this bolt for - it is about 2m off the deck and in a trad climbing area?

And the usual questions-
What consultation with the climbing community was conducted prior to the placement of this bolt?
What is the preferred method of consultation?
Why are bolts placed in a traditional climbing place like Arapiles.


The good Dr

1-Jul-2009
4:39:20 PM

That is a Matt Brooks route established in the early nineties.


nmonteith

1-Jul-2009
4:40:26 PM

On 1/07/2009 robertsonja wrote:
>What is this bolt for - it is about 2m off the deck and in a trad climbing
>area?

Is this the same trad climbing area about 20m right of the gridbolted Have a Good Flight wall?

Probably the best method of consultation (if you can be bothered) is to use these forums.

dalai

1-Jul-2009
4:41:03 PM

Since when is Araps a trad climbing area? The area has been utilising mixed protection from day one.


tnd

1-Jul-2009
4:44:23 PM

Here we go again.

dalai

1-Jul-2009
4:46:12 PM

On 1/07/2009 tnd wrote:
>Here we go again.

LOL! What else is there to argue about tnd, global warming? ;-)

1-Jul-2009
5:40:31 PM

On 1/07/2009 dalai wrote:

>LOL! What else is there to argue about tnd, global warming? ;-)

How about Dalai's bouldering guide?

devlin66

1-Jul-2009
5:40:53 PM

What about global warming?! Next you'll tell me some one is putting bolts in rock for climbing!

pharmamatt

1-Jul-2009
6:15:53 PM

route discussed in this thread

correct link for route description

dalai

1-Jul-2009
9:19:30 PM

On 1/07/2009 BA wrote:
>How about Dalai's bouldering guide?

No point with a bouldering guide. Only good bouldering is in Sydney.

robertsonja

2-Jul-2009
1:42:51 PM

On 1/07/2009 dalai wrote:
>Since when is Araps a trad climbing area? The area has been utilising mixed
>protection from day one.

Yes, correct Arapiles is a traditional climbing area. The area has not been using mixed protection from day one, ie BC, before climbing. A previous generation who used pitions and other antiquated methods should not set precedent.

Arapiles has an intrinsic value, off course it does, it was home to previous indigenous cultures, it is an ecosystem it is an old mountain range....etc. Arapiles also has a value that climbers place on it, this value is not as an area with sport climbing ethics, this value is not as an area with mixed ethics, but the value is that of a traditional climbing area. Just ask any international climber value of Arapiles and why they didn't catch the bus to the Blue Mountains or Nowra.


nmonteith

2-Jul-2009
2:14:01 PM

On 2/07/2009 robertsonja wrote:
> A previous
>generation who used pitions and other antiquated methods should not set
>precedent.

Define the previous generation I think you'll find many of the first climbers at Araps are still climbing there today! There is no 'generation gap' to speak off - its a slippery dissolving slow change - not a hard and fast point of no return. Bolts have been placed at Araps every year for the last 30+ years. Get over it!

dalai

2-Jul-2009
2:14:14 PM

On 2/07/2009 robertsonja wrote:
>Yes, correct Arapiles is a traditional climbing area. The area has not
>been using mixed protection from day one, ie BC, before climbing.

Interesting theory. So going by that every area even it has been developed from the beginning as a sport area is still really a trad area because there weren't bolts BC?


gordoste

2-Jul-2009
2:46:37 PM

nice troll robertsonja. Oh, wait, you were serious?


The good Dr

2-Jul-2009
7:24:20 PM

Actually, if you go back into climbing history, which as a sport developed around the 1880-1890, you will discover that traditionally, for the majority of climbing history, climbs were normally protected by hammering stuff into the rock, be it pitons or bolts of various descriptions. That would therefore define traditional climbing as climbing using fixed protection. climbing using nuts, and other subsequently developed equipmen,t as a major focus arrived in the early '70s. So this is a modern construct devised to sell climbing equipment, or so the conspiracy theorists say ... hmmm


mattjr

2-Jul-2009
7:36:30 PM

Right.. that's it.. I'm gonna sell my rack and invest in a cordless drill! It sounds like Arapiles is the place to go to gain some much needed bolt placing experience.
*stoked.. I now know which supermarket chain i'll be heading to for my bolts and glue!!!!!!!!!

One Day Hero

3-Jul-2009
6:59:11 PM

robertsonja

5-Jul-2009
8:43:35 PM

On 3/07/2009 One Day Hero wrote:

>Shit looking bolt on a worthless nothing route. Chop away! There are lots
>of handy bolts on cool routes at araps too, don't get carried away with
>the 'trad crag' thing.

My sentiments exactly...shitty bolt on a worthless route....made worse by the fact that it is surrounded by mega classic trad lines on a trad cliff. If one can be "bothered" reaching a consensus one would, you right though "chop away"

robertsonja

5-Jul-2009
8:53:44 PM

On 2/07/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>On 2/07/2009 robertsonja wrote:
>> A previous
>>generation who used pitions and other antiquated methods should not set
>>precedent.
>
>Define the previous generation I think you'll find many of the first climbers
>at Araps are still climbing there today! There is no 'generation gap' to
>speak off - its a slippery dissolving slow change - not a hard and fast
>point of no return. Bolts have been placed at Araps every year for the
>last 30+ years. Get over it!

Thank you for the insight, I realise that applying the term generation to a population can be a little loose. However, the term "generation gap" may still be applied to distinguish those who placed pitons and used hemp ropes when little alternatives were available to those that place micro cams and use low energy light bulbs.

Bolts have been placed at Araps for 30 years, so what? We've been utilising coal as a main energy source since the industrial revolution. "Get over it" - No thanks.

kieranl

5-Jul-2009
9:31:55 PM

On 1/07/2009 robertsonja wrote:
>There is a carrot bolt on Atridae Wall just to the right of the start of
>Surface of Air.
>
>I don't think that this is a new bolt but begs the questions.
>
>What is this bolt for - it is about 2m off the deck and in a trad climbing
>area?
The bolt is at about 3 metres (or so it appeared to me today) to protect a grade 20 section above a ledge. I believe that HB soloed up and down that section shortly after the climb was put up but that proves only that people who can climb grade 29 can solo grade 20.
>
>And the usual questions-
>What consultation with the climbing community was conducted prior to the
>placement of this bolt?
None I would presume. The start of Matt's route is metres away from the start of other climbs so I wouldn't expect him to ask anyone.
>What is the preferred method of consultation?
Duh? See above.
>Why are bolts placed in a traditional climbing place like Arapiles.
Because people do.

There are stacks of bolts at Arapiles. It's legitimate to question their use but please have the courage of your convictions. PIck on a route that people actually know and care about rather than this obscure climb in The Atridae.

There are 43 messages in this topic.