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Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Grampians	Northern	Mt Stapylton Amphitheatre	Taipan Wall	[ Taipan Images ]

Author

Rap anchors on Taipan


IdratherbeclimbingM9

20-Sep-2007
9:28:11 AM

You still need another #1 and #2 to have three complete sets.
Heh, heh, heh!


Edward Sillypants

20-Sep-2007
9:28:22 AM

What is wrong with placing a couple of knife-blade pitons ?? You simply place them there on a cold day AND LEAVE EM ... that way ppl won't have to buy extra rps ; the rock will be saved from endless micro-erosion caused by rps being wiggled in and out ; and VIOLA !!! climb the route on hot days so that the 'blades are bombproof to fall onto !!!

... mmm-kay:)


skink

20-Sep-2007
9:54:39 AM

On 19/09/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:
>I've got 3 x each size from 3 to 10, but only 1 x size 1 and 1 x size 2,
>so maybe a trip to Little Bourke at lunch is in order (always love an excuse
>to go and shop for gear).

RP's don't come above size 5, so what are you talking about in the above post?

Hope you aren't confusing size 1 and size 2 alloy nuts with size 1 and size 2 RP's - you might be in for a surprise on 7th pillar if you are?


IdratherbeclimbingM9

20-Sep-2007
10:07:33 AM

Excellent point andesite.
'Tis funny how one can read something and not take it all in, even though I thought it strange OP mentioning RP's above size 5. Did not think it worth commenting on at the time until you pointed out the implications of being up there with the wrong gear!

gfdonc

20-Sep-2007
10:52:45 AM

Ha! To refresh your memories of a thread from last year or so, we climbed on a cool morning but by the time I went to clean pitch 2 the sun had come around and I had to bash out most of the placements. We left behind 2 or 3 wires on this section which were subsequently souveniered by the next party - presumably again on a cool day.


Organ Pipe

20-Sep-2007
12:37:30 PM

On 20/09/2007 andesite wrote:
>RP's don't come above size 5, so what are you talking about in the above
>post?

I was talking about black diamond nuts.

>Hope you aren't confusing size 1 and size 2 alloy nuts with size 1 and
>size 2 RP's...

*shifting uncomfortably*

>...you might be in for a surprise on 7th pillar if you are?

F$%K! F$%K! F$%K! F$%K! F$%K!

I did make a bit of a judgement call in Paddys yesterday. I held the size zero RP brand rp in one hand and the black diamond size 1 nut in the other and thought to myself, the flake after the bulges on the second pitch of the pillar could not possibly be so tight along its entire length that it wont fit a black diamond 1.

I thought to myself: Mike Stone lead this flake with pegs and wooden wedges, and didn't feel the need to drill bolts on this section, so it must take more than just a whole lot of number 1 RP's.

Help?!

I don't object to the idea of aquiring said RP's but I don't think they will get alot of regular use on my rack.

gfdonc

20-Sep-2007
1:01:19 PM

On 20/09/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:
>I thought to myself: Mike Stone lead this flake with pegs and wooden wedges,

Go and find a knifeblade piton. Hold it in your hands. Turn it over a couple of times. Say "oh" in a thoughtful voice. Now go and buy your #1 RPs.

(disclaimer: we did it on #2s as noted. Depends how far you can stretch, the flake opens up from time to time. But I would not go up there without something smaller than a 3RP.)


skink

20-Sep-2007
1:02:52 PM

Sounds like if you climb it while it is cool and in the shade (i.e. #2 RPs called for) you will be fine with #1 BD's and maybe even #2 BD's.

#1 BD = 4.3mm
#2 BD = 4.8mm
#3 BD = 6.1mm

vs.

#1 RP = 3.5mm
#2 RP = 4.5mm
#3 RP = 6mm

When we did it (cold, in shade) we had max one off of each #1RP and #2 RP and probably one only of #1 and #2 BD's.

I say go for it, she'll be right :o)

Though owning a set of RPs wouldn't hurt you none in the long run either (better option than having a THIRD!!! set of BDs IMHO)


Organ Pipe

20-Sep-2007
4:25:18 PM

Alright, it's official, no thread I've contributed to on this site so far has cost me so much cash.

I just popped up Little Bourke and got my hands on 2 x #0 and 2 x #1 RP's.

I couldn't help but be a little annoyed at the "If you've mistaken a BD alloy #1 with a #1 RP then you're up for a nasty surprise on the Pillar" logic, as when I held the two side by side, they are frighteningly close to one another!

Granted though, the RP will probably be more versatile as the head is not as wide (length not thickness) and I expect that some folk turn them on their sides too so you sort of get two peices for the price of one.

Oh and andesite, thanks for that info. Was good.


muki

20-Sep-2007
4:26:35 PM

On 20/09/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:

>*shifting uncomfortably*
>F$%K! F$%K! F$%K! F$%K! F$%K!
> I held the size zero RP brand rp in one hand

??? do they still make the zero's ???

>I don't object to the idea of aquiring said RP's but I don't think they
>will get alot of regular use on my rack.

They will get heaps of use, they are great for placing above bomber gear to slow you down a bit!
But seriously, they are great just before a crux, when you can only just get in a "small" wire.
And you will need them on the 7th !!! this is a given OK, not just an opinion !!! so go and buy them.
And then you won't be stressing about the wires you now have doubles of, that won't fit in the "very
small" crack, good luck have fun. BP


Organ Pipe

20-Sep-2007
4:33:24 PM

On 20/09/2007 bomber pro wrote:
>??? do they still make the zero's ???

Dunno, but Paddy's had 4 of them in stock. 2 now.

Hey thanks for the tips and advice gents. Much appreciated. I'll obviously let you know how I get on : )

Ben.

dalai

20-Sep-2007
4:34:41 PM

If you spend anytime at Arapiles RP's sizes 1 and up will be used alot.

The zeros, well not really other than having a great days adventure on a really amazing piece of stone. Value priceless!

Rap from the top of the Great Divide was always fine on two tied 50 metre ropes. But unless the chain has been changed, take time for the last person coming down to make sure the ropes have the best chance of pulling. Otherwise it's a long prussic or worse still walk to unstick...


IdratherbeclimbingM9

20-Sep-2007
5:06:21 PM

OP wrote
>as when I held the two side by side, they are frighteningly close to one another!
... that sounds logical ! (Heh, heh, heh); ... ~> even without andesites micrometer confirmation of specs!; besides you earlier wrote that it was good to have an excuse to buy gear anyway.

I find having them on the rack useful in free-climbing as pieces placed in opposition occasionally to stop gear lifting due rope-drag.

When you have done 7th Pillar, if you are looking to offload them you shouldn't have too much trouble doing so.


skink

20-Sep-2007
5:39:24 PM

>Oh and andesite, thanks for that info. Was good.

Well, I did give you a bit of a bum steer initially, cos I had Wild Country/DMM #1 and #2 in my head when I made the earlier post which got you back down to the store - the BD #1 and #2 are substantially smaller than their UK namesakes. Pity you didn't see my post with the dimensions before you spent the money.

But RPs rock (or any of the other small, hard micronuts - HB offsets particularly) and you'll need them when you get around to Ozymandias... and you will... if Seventh Pillar floats your boat :o)

kieranl

20-Sep-2007
9:33:09 PM

The original pegs on Seventh Pillar wouldn't have been knifeblades but soft steel blade pegs, probably Stubai. A bit thicker than knifeblades but still pretty thin. I think that when I last was on the route (1981 or 82) the thin part on the roof was all fixed pegs. Apparently they've all fallen out now. The soft steel pegs probably stayed in longer than modern pegs would because the soft pegs distort and mould themselves around features which would tend to hold them in place as the flake expands and contracts. Knifeblades would just carve a channel through the soft rock and drop out when the crack expands.
It's interesting to see that my understanding of how flake cracks narrow and widen relative to heat seems to be supported by other people's observations.

james

21-Sep-2007
12:09:59 AM

On 20/09/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:
>I thought to myself: Mike Stone lead this flake with pegs and wooden wedges,
>and didn't feel the need to drill bolts on this section, so it must take
>more than just a whole lot of number 1 RP's.

so the section that needs the RPs is only a few metres (literally 2-3 pieces), then it goes left & the straight up the main part of the flake on more varied sizes (standard small/medium/large wires). But without the RPs you simply won't get any other gear in. the 0.8mm (or whatever) difference between an RP & BD wire is enough to ensure it won't fit.

21-Sep-2007
1:45:43 PM

On 18/09/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:
>Just curious about rap anchors along the top of Taipan wall, and distances
>from them to ground (as in are there any 2 x 50m rope opportunities, or
>will I need 2 x 60m).

2x50m is definitely enough for The Clean Sweep anchor. Traversing along the top of Taipan from 7th Pillar to Clean Sweep gives me the heeby jeebies so take care. In particular the red line in this picture is grade 8-ish soloing on dodgy grey stapytlon bollards on the lip of a 50m fall - the green line is better but you could still seriously stuff up (especially the bit above Father O) so take care.

>I assume that this part of the wall is too high for 2 x 60's.

actually a single strand 60m will reach the ground on stretch from anywhere on top of Taipan...but there are no anchors to rap off, so the Clean Sweep anchors are your main option. (I think the (new) Father O anchor is just below the lip so would be pretty scary to access from above). There is also new DRB at the end of the 3rd pitch of Seventh Pillar and 2x50m ropes will get you off from there though you'd miss out on the nice last pitch.

as for thermal cycling, I have also seen this in horizontal breaks on Taipan - a #0.5Fr resisted an hour of cleaning efforts in hot sun, but later came out easily in 2s in cool shade.


muki

27-Sep-2007
11:07:52 PM

On 19/09/2007 kieranl wrote:
>Thermal. Rock expands when hot, contracts when cold. Maybe my conclusion
>is wrong but my experience is that gear jammed in a flake on a hot afternoon
>usually pulls out easily in the cool of the morning. And the flakes on
>Seventh Pillar move. Almost thirty years ago I recovered a hex that had
>been squashed and then dropped out of Seventh Pillar. So, I'd do prefer
>to do Seventh Pillar in cool weather.
>But I'm quite happy for someone to tell me why I'm wrong with my theory.

recovered these from the flake in The 7th Pillar over the weekend, they have been sitting in the bottom
of the flake after being chewed up in the sun, then spat out in the cool of the evening, enjoy!

I think that these two nuts were the same size before the one with the crack in it was crushed.

28-Sep-2007
12:35:11 AM

That reminds me : a year or 2 ago the yerbas found an even more pancaked wire than those, but it wasn't welded into the flake, it was sitting on the ground below. same theory about thermal cycling.

MichaelOR

28-Sep-2007
4:14:35 PM

Yeah, I wrote an article about trusting such 'fixed' gear on routes for Argus (VCC monthly) earlier this year. I included some photos of the squashed wire we found below Taipan. A very similar thing also happened to a stuck camming device at The Flat Iron.
This expansion/contraction behind flakes is significant. Well placed wires get stuck as the cliff comes into sun, and they become unsafe or even fall out as the cliff comes into shade and cools down.
Releading routes in the shade on gear placed earlier in the day in full sun means checking and replacing gear.
Michael

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