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Crag & Route Beta

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Arapiles newbe


phillipivan

29-Apr-2016
10:48:26 PM

If bad multi pitch routes are you thing I think you may be better off going to the Chimney Potts in the Grampians.

Wendy

30-Apr-2016
9:27:05 AM

I'm with the crowds saying Bard is not that great. If you want an amazing, easy introduction to Araps, go for Arachnus.

PeterW

1-May-2016
12:26:24 AM

It's funny. I've been climbing at Araps for 44 years, and heaps of people have sung the virtues of Arachnus for all of that time. Every so often I go back and do it again thinking maybe it will get better this time, but to be honest I don't think I've ever enjoyed it. I've always found it scary for the grade (even when I was leading low 20's), and I always have trouble finding the route in the middle bits. (Sure, you can climb almost anywhere there, but the grade can increase and the pro decrease surprisingly quickly if you wander off route.)

Conversely, I'm genuinely surprised about the lack of love for Bard. Yes, it wanders a bit by modern standards, but apart from the third pitch I think the second pitch traverse is also a classic. It's dead easy, unless you're tall, or unless you let your head get the better of you. :-) To be honest, for my money Bard epitomises the whole concept of "trad" climbing!

patto

1-May-2016
1:01:49 AM

Each to the own I suppose. Though I agree with PeterW, Arachnus has never inspired me... Whereas pretty much everything else left or right of it is amazing.

I really enjoyed Spiral Staircase the other month. Hadn't done it in a decade. But I suppose that is more about the location, the view, the weather and the company rather than top class climbing.

Wendy

1-May-2016
7:03:51 AM

Why I don't like Bard:
P1 poorly protected, slabby nonsense start leading to ramble to belay.
P2 short scramble with face in bird poo.
P3 Terrible rock. more bird poo. more challenging gear
P4 Might actually be OK:)
P5 Terrible rock. more poor gear. it is in a good position though

Arachnus on the other had has consistently good rock, follows a much better line up a great feature. Has 3 long, sustained pitches. I always do the right variant and the gear is fine if you follow the guide instructions and don't end up going direct in the middle bit. It's safer and easier to protect than Bard. The cave belay is awesome. THe top head wall is great. Being a complete non-fan of slabs, I would do it over any of the routes around it any day. Except maybe Skink and Watchtower Crack, although as they both have the same shitty start, Arachnus wins in the constant goodness stakes.

Eskimo Nell is another easy route that trumps Bard anyday. So does the Dribble. Spiral Staircase has 2 great pitches but an unfortunately easy bushy chimney and meander joining them.

johnpitcairn

1-May-2016
8:24:18 AM

Pitch 1 of Hurricane lamp cracks then nip over and finish up the Shroud.

I'm not much of a fan of Arachnus either. Maybe a good solo though.

Jayford4321

1-May-2016
10:25:33 AM

dalai

1-May-2016
11:48:00 AM

On 1/05/2016 gnaguts wrote:
>On 1/05/2016 Wendy wrote:
>>Why I don't like Bard:
>>P1 poorly protected, slabby nonsense start leading to ramble to belay.
>>
>>P2 short scramble with face in bird poo.
>>P3 Terrible rock. more bird poo. more challenging gear
>>P4 Might actually be OK:)
>>P5 Terrible rock. more poor gear. it is in a good position though.
>
>>Arachnus on the other had has consistently good rock,
>>blah blah.
>
>Y do you mention terrible rock and a Raps long standing icon route in
>the same breath?
>Cmon Wendy, Uv been around and seen plenty of places with actual crap
>rock, and by contrast Araps is heaps headNshoulderz better quality rock
>than almost everywhere else.
>Tell it like it iz, U just don't like bird poo on it, thatz all.

I've only every soloed Bard and can only recall that one rattling chockstone to climb over. So I'm also perplexed by the loose rock comment!

stugang

1-May-2016
1:10:27 PM

Compared to bard arachnus is as boring as batshit. Great for kiddies transitioning from ladders to rock but at the end of the day it's a slab covered in jugs. Bard on the other hand will always look and be fking amazing.

There are 1000 arachnus's in gyms around the world but there is only one bard.

10 meat patties
Cheese
Hamburger buns.

Wendy

1-May-2016
5:49:12 PM

You can have the 10 meat patties, cheese, hamburgers and Bard ...

simey

1-May-2016
10:46:57 PM

On 1/05/2016 Wendy wrote:
>Why I don't like Bard:
>P1 poorly protected, slabby nonsense start leading to ramble to belay.
>
>P2 short scramble with face in bird poo.
>P3 Terrible rock. more bird poo. more challenging gear
>P4 Might actually be OK:)
>P5 Terrible rock. more poor gear. it is in a good position though
>
>Arachnus on the other had has consistently good rock, follows a much better
>line up a great feature. Has 3 long, sustained pitches. I always do the
>right variant and the gear is fine if you follow the guide instructions
>and don't end up going direct in the middle bit. It's safer and easier
>to protect than Bard. The cave belay is awesome. THe top head wall is great.
>Being a complete non-fan of slabs, I would do it over any of the routes
>around it any day. Except maybe Skink and Watchtower Crack, although as
>they both have the same shitty start, Arachnus wins in the constant goodness
>stakes.
>
>Eskimo Nell is another easy route that trumps Bard anyday. So does the
>Dribble. Spiral Staircase has 2 great pitches but an unfortunately easy
>bushy chimney and meander joining them.
>

Geez Wendy, I was already questioning your judgement on climbs, but now I realise that you are a lost cause.

Next time you find a 100m high buttress with 5 pitches of varied climbing in outrageous positions with every pitch at grade 12, then you let me know.

As fine as the climbing is on those other routes, some of your comments are just plain weird. You talk up Arachnus as being better than Bard, but the climbing isn't as varied, the protection at the crux of Arachnus is not particularly good, it certainly doesn't follow a better line than Bard, and it is shit for seeing and communicating with your seconds. I'm not trying to put Arachnus down though, as I still think it is an awesome route.

Eskimo Nell is another great route, but it also suffers from a slick, bouldery and poorly protected start that is significantly harder than the rest of the route. And the positions are nowhere near as exposed as Bard.

Bard is not about giving you warm fuzzies, it is an out-there route that has you packing darkies despite its very moderate grade. It is a remarkable climb.

MichaelOR

2-May-2016
10:03:41 AM

Well said Simey!

Wendy

2-May-2016
10:31:31 AM

On 1/05/2016 simey wrote:

>
>Geez Wendy, I was already questioning your judgement on climbs, but now
>I realise that you are a lost cause.
>
>Next time you find a 100m high buttress with 5 pitches of varied climbing
>in outrageous positions with every pitch at grade 12, then you let me know.
>
>As fine as the climbing is on those other routes, some of your comments
>are just plain weird. You talk up Arachnus as being better than Bard, but
>the climbing isn't as varied, the protection at the crux of Arachnus is
>not particularly good, it certainly doesn't follow a better line than Bard,
>and it is shit for seeing and communicating with your seconds. I'm not
>trying to put Arachnus down though, as I still think it is an awesome route.
>
>Eskimo Nell is another great route, but it also suffers from a slick,
>bouldery and poorly protected start that is significantly harder than the
>rest of the route. And the positions are nowhere near as exposed as Bard.
>
>Bard is not about giving you warm fuzzies, it is an out-there route that
>has you packing darkies despite its very moderate grade. It is a remarkable
>climb.
>

Just because all pitches are grade 12 and it is exposed doesn't mean I have to like the climb. Call me terribly boring, but I love the climbing on EN and Arachnus and I don't like the climbing on Bard. I love the rock on EN and Arachnus and I don't like the rock on Bard. Maybe you should go do some long easy routes in the alps - i've done much better 4-500m 5as there than Bard. And given the things I tend to climb, I don't think you can say it's because i like routes that give me warm fuzzies.

Sure the start of EN is bouldery and slick, but it does actually have gear, which is more than you can say for the start of Bard. And the middle pitch is probably the best pitch of grade 9 in existence. Then you get the exposed funky top chimney plus a crawl through a cave. Heaps of fun. The top pitch of Arachnus is probably the best pitch of grade 8 in existence with glorious rock going bang up the middle of a dominant feature. In fact, I'd take the Watchtower as a great feature to climb over Bard Buttress as well. And communicating with your second? How many yelling epics have you heard off Bard? It's almost constant. It's a feature of long pitches. You develop strategies to deal with it. It certainly doesn't detract from the route. And if I was to stress about a route for my second, it would be Bard with it's traverse then diagonal pitch.

I don't like Bard. I'm not even alone in my opinion. If I had a friend coming to Araps for only one day wanting to do an easy multipitch, there's no way I'd take them up Bard. I don't like Second Coming either if you want to argue over another supposedly classic route.

simey

2-May-2016
11:37:26 AM

On 2/05/2016 Wendy wrote:

>Just because all pitches are grade 12 and it is exposed doesn't mean I
>have to like the climb. Call me terribly boring, but I love the climbing
>on EN and Arachnus and I don't like the climbing on Bard. I love the rock
>on EN and Arachnus and I don't like the rock on Bard. Maybe you should
>go do some long easy routes in the alps - i've done much better 4-500m
>5as there than Bard. And given the things I tend to climb, I don't think
>you can say it's because i like routes that give me warm fuzzies.
>

I have done long easy routes in the Alps and I have yet to come across a route as steep and varied as Bard that packs so much in for 100m. Personally I think you are talking shit because granite in the Alps simply doesn't give you the same architecture and steepness and funk that Arapiles offers at such moderate grades.

>Sure the start of EN is bouldery and slick, but it does actually have
>gear, which is more than you can say for the start of Bard.

Bard has a bomber medium size cam protecting its first pitch crux. I would say it is more straightforward to protect than the crux moves of Eskimo Nell which are unfortunately out of character with the rest of the route.

>And the middle
>pitch is probably the best pitch of grade 9 in existence. Then you get
>the exposed funky top chimney plus a crawl through a cave. Heaps of fun.
>The top pitch of Arachnus is probably the best pitch of grade 8 in existence
>with glorious rock going bang up the middle of a dominant feature. In fact,
>I'd take the Watchtower as a great feature to climb over Bard Buttress
>as well.

I'm not criticizing Arachnus and Eskimo Nell. They are all bloody great routes. You just have a thing about Bard which you bang on about, but which is out of keeping with what the vast majority of climbers think.

>And communicating with your second? How many yelling epics have
>you heard off Bard? It's almost constant. It's a feature of long pitches.
>You develop strategies to deal with it. It certainly doesn't detract from
>the route. And if I was to stress about a route for my second, it would
>be Bard with it's traverse then diagonal pitch.

Given that Arachnus is often peoples first multi-pitch, it can be a drag not being able to see them from the first belay to offer advice, particularly on that pitch. Novices often go slightly the wrong way and because you can't see them you can't direct them clearly, which results in a bit of faffing and time wasting. It is not a big deal though. It is not enough for me to start bagging the shit out of Arachnus and telling people not to do it. Meanwhile the crux pitches of Bard do allow easy communication between leader and second, although you do end up being out of sight of each other on the upper pitches.

>I don't like Bard. I'm not even alone in my opinion. If I had a friend
>coming to Araps for only one day wanting to do an easy multipitch, there's
>no way I'd take them up Bard.

Unfortunately when you guide you focus too much on what you like and not what is best the best for your clients/friends. For various reasons I rarely guide Bard, but if I think they are after an out-there climb with lashings of exposure then I will certainly consider it.

> I don't like Second Coming either if you
>want to argue over another supposedly classic route.

Obviously your new routes on Garden Wall have it all over Second Coming too.

jdb

2-May-2016
12:42:21 PM

I just wish Simey and Wendy would just 'get it on' so all this sexual tension would dissipate (and put the rest of us out of our collective miseries)

Jayford4321

2-May-2016
12:50:47 PM

On 2/05/2016 jdb wrote:
>I just wish Simey and Wendy would just 'get it on' so all this sexual tension
>would dissipate (and put the rest of us out of our collective miseries)

Ur no doubt referring 2 the Second Coming too.

johnpitcairn

2-May-2016
12:58:49 PM

Can we have a jelly wrestling showdown please?

Add Spellbinder to my list I think.

Wendy

2-May-2016
1:11:08 PM

On 2/05/2016 jdb wrote:
>I just wish Simey and Wendy would just 'get it on' so all this sexual tension
>would dissipate (and put the rest of us out of our collective miseries)

if this is sexual tension, I don't want to know what you were all fantasising about bomberpro when he was on here.

simey

3-May-2016
9:31:27 PM

On 2/05/2016 jdb wrote:
>I just wish Simey and Wendy would just 'get it on' so all this sexual tension
>would dissipate (and put the rest of us out of our collective miseries)

Does that mean that whispering the words 'Bard' and 'Second Coming' will help create the mood and get the juices flowing?

gfdonc

3-May-2016
10:10:52 PM

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart, the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.

Oh, just fits so well dunnit?

There are 44 messages in this topic.