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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 22
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Grampians Central (General) (General) [ Grampians Guide | Images ] 

Author
RBs removed from Surfing with Aliens (Bundaleer)
ad iudicium
5-Oct-2014
7:40:02 PM
The abysmal and irresponsibly placed ring bolts on this route (see image) are now gone. The sub-standard anchors are still in place so if you feel the need to rebolt the line then go ahead but please do everyone a favour and do it properly.

Kp
5-Oct-2014
8:15:22 PM
Good job this whole wall needs rebolting. Hopefully I will get around to it this summer.

nmonteith
5-Oct-2014
8:15:28 PM
So you removed the bolts but didn't replace them??? Why?

I doubt they would have been genuinely dangerous. Not ideally placed for sure, but they would have held falls, especially if you tied off the shaft with a sling.
patto
5-Oct-2014
9:47:32 PM
This is your first post!? Or is this your pseudonym because you don't want to put your name to your actions.

Visually those bolts look a little underwhelming. But strength wise they seem fine (depending on glue depth for the middle one). They are certainly a hell of alot better that countless other bolts I've clipped and fallen on at various crags around Melbourne.

Duang Daunk
5-Oct-2014
9:56:08 PM
On 5/10/2014 nmonteith wrote:
>So you removed the bolts but didn't replace them??? Why?
>
Maybe he has an application pending to join Dangerouser Cliffs organisation.

>I doubt they would have been genuinely dangerous. Not ideally placed for
>sure, but they would have held falls, especially if you tied off the shaft
>with a sling.

Wtf?
Ok, it is obvious from the pics that the original bolting was substandard, but placing hero loops on rings is bloody ridiculous.
Either it is trad or it is spurt, and I can't imagine spurt climbers carrying tie offs, let alone fiddling them on.

nmonteith
5-Oct-2014
10:08:10 PM
On 5/10/2014 Duang Daunk wrote:
>Wtf?
>Ok, it is obvious from the pics that the original bolting was substandard,
>but placing hero loops on rings is bloody ridiculous.
>Either it is trad or it is spurt, and I can't imagine spurt climbers carrying
>tie offs, let alone fiddling them on.

It's actually a mixed route - 3 bolts and trad.

I have zero issue if the bolts were removed and then replaced with something better. But to just remove them when they have been in-place for 16 years and taken falls from a fair few people seems a bit pointless. Maybe a bolt fell out? That would make sense to remove the rest of them so that no-one could climb it. But he didn't say that.

The route is now entirely unclimbable. By hero-looping the rings it would be as safe as a clipped a draw - and if you can't do it 'on lead' just rap down and pre-place. It's not the sort of route most people would be onsighting anyway (grade 27 super techy wall).
mattj
6-Oct-2014
8:59:57 AM
As a general FYI, it's the torque generated by having the direction the P faces and the direction of application of force (fall) not aligned that causes non-recessed Ps to fail. These were almost certainly safe given someone has clearly had the courtesy to test them for a number of fall directions already :) If you're ever slumped onto an RP (at a piddly 4kN) then you should feel comfy whipping on these.

Also, from my experience 9/10 of the effort of removing glue-ins (properly) is the removal rather than the replacement. Given you're apparently too time-poor to finish the job, I'm curious how you removed these bolts. Did you hack saw them off (razor sharp and flush-ish) or heat them up and pull them out?
Dr Nick
6-Oct-2014
2:59:35 PM
With no recessing I would have thought a prybar through the eye, a good twist, and then screwing it out would work fairly well.

phil_nev
6-Oct-2014
3:41:52 PM
On 5/10/2014 nmonteith wrote:

>. Maybe a bolt fell out? That would make sense to remove the rest of them so that no-one
>could climb it. But he didn't say that.

Great idea Neil, leave em till they fall out.... After midnight style?? but perhaps with a less happy ending.

To be fair, and I love those old dudes, but they should have made the effort to fix these a long time ago. They certainly have the requisite knowledge and skill nowadays.

ChuckNorris
6-Oct-2014
4:02:43 PM
They look very close together. No wonder they were chopped. Could have left one though.

nmonteith
6-Oct-2014
4:40:01 PM
On 6/10/2014 phil_nev wrote:
>Great idea Neil, leave em till they fall out.... After midnight style??
> but perhaps with a less happy ending.

So you would be cool if I just pulled out all the bolts on Serpentine, Daemon Flower, Angular Perspective and any other of Malcolm's routes with less than super bolts? But then didn't bother to replace them?

None of these bolts have fallen out - they don't look ideal but they have held falls.

>To be fair, and I love those old dudes, but they should have made the
>effort to fix these a long time ago. They certainly have the requisite
>knowledge and skill nowadays.

I totally agree Phil. Those guys should have fixed them at least a decade ago! BTW I'm not talking out of my butt when I say tie them off. That is exactly what i did when I repeated their 21 to the right that had the same bolts!
patto
6-Oct-2014
5:31:39 PM
On 6/10/2014 phil_nev wrote:
>Great idea Neil, leave em till they fall out.... After midnight style??
> but perhaps with a less happy ending.

Who says they are ever going to fall out? Good quality bolts, glued into solid rock. What do you suppose the failure mechanism is and at what kN?

Sure they are not recessed. But there doesn't seem much opportunity for significant toque on them anyway. These are far better than alot of bolts out there. I wouldn't be worried clipping them

nmonteith
6-Oct-2014
5:46:31 PM
No torque issues with a sling wrapped around it! :-)

Duang Daunk
6-Oct-2014
6:06:57 PM
nm wrote;
>None of these bolts have fallen out - they don't look ideal but they have held falls.

Your differentiation meter needs servicing nm, as that same logic applies to carrots.

You also earlier wrote that it is a mixed grade 27 route.
Wtf has the grade got to do with it? ... Unless you are suggesting Gd 27 spurties also know enough history to know what a hero loop is?
I applaud the fact it retained whatever trad was available.

JamesMc
6-Oct-2014
6:09:11 PM
Pass the popcorn someone
ademmert
6-Oct-2014
6:34:48 PM
Hey ad iudicium,

How did you remove them?
I will be their tomorrow and if not to much patching etc work is need I might be able to fix it then and there,
mostly don't want to lug in to much unnecessary gear

PM me if need be,

nmonteith
6-Oct-2014
7:43:43 PM
On 6/10/2014 Duang Daunk wrote:
>nm wrote;
>>None of these bolts have fallen out - they don't look ideal but they
>have held falls.
>
>Your differentiation meter needs servicing nm, as that same logic applies
>to carrots.

Exactly. I wouldn't pull out carrots on established routes and not replace them. That is the whole point I am making.

These bolts are glue-ins that have not been recessed. There are plenty of examples of this around the place. If one of these bolts actually fell out then fair enough - pull the rest as a temp measure before getting back as quick as possible to replace them. Or leave a warning sign. But if they didn't fall out I don't see why the urgent need to remove them all - especially since they have looked exactly like that for 14 years. They aren't exactly rusting away.

>
>You also earlier wrote that it is a mixed grade 27 route.
>Wtf has the grade got to do with it? ... Unless you are suggesting Gd
>27 spurties also know enough history to know what a hero loop is?

You previously stated that hero-looping the bolts was too fiddly. I was making the point that it is a hard route, that people would probably not be trying to onsight. So just rapping down and installing hero loops is a viable technique. Right now with NO bolts the route is unclimbable in any way.

tmarsh
6-Oct-2014
10:09:25 PM
Those bolts were an abortion when they were placed. I've got nothing against a well placed ringbolt, but lord they were terrible. It amazes me they lasted this long.

Adam, when bolts that shit are placed, the obvious way to get them out is a few lateral taps with a hammer to crack the bolt/glue interface and then a funkness device or a carabiner chain to get them out. I'd guess a 12mm drill would ream out the hole of residual glue and a glue-in machine bolt or a properly recessed ring could be substituted.

Even though there are other examples of sketchy bolting at Bundaleer, those bolts were the worst.

nmonteith
7-Oct-2014
7:20:50 AM
The sketchiest bolting at Bundaleer was the old 1/4" carrots I replaced on Genesis Direct! There is still quite a few really old, really short, really rusty carrots at that cliff.
gfdonc
7-Oct-2014
9:57:06 AM
Are you able to post up the locations Neil?

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 22
There are 22 messages in this topic.

 

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