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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
All NSW (General) (General) (General)  

Author
Mount Keira Bolting
bergheil
21/01/2014
8:54:06 PM
Does anyone know who bolted all the new lines (and many old lines) up Mount Keira recently?
bergheil
24/01/2014
7:28:55 PM
It seems that 'Climbing Anchors' may have provided the bolts: http://www.climbinganchors.com.au/pages/Rebolting-Fund.html
'Free Rebolting Gear supplied recently
•40 Fixe Ring Bolts and 4 Tubes of KF2 for Wollongong rebolting'

Not sure where the other 20,000 bolts came from

nmonteith
24/01/2014
10:51:20 PM
I guy called Lionel Terray (maybe not his real name?). All got rather controversial last year...

Pat
15/03/2014
9:01:59 AM
I was always amazed when I lived in W'gong in the 80's that no - one had done anything significant on the nearby Robson's look-out. Anyone had a look at it from a climbing perspective?
Olbert
16/03/2014
7:55:33 PM
Lionel Terry (not his real name but I'll let him give that if he wants) did a lot of bolting up at Kiera a few years ago. He did some necessary rebolting, did some questionable retrobolting and sunk bolts into some new routes. The manner in which he went about this rubbed up a lot of the local climbers the wrong way.

There was a bit of talk (on here and on a now defunct and inaccessible Facebook forum) about doing a lot of chopping. The only chopping that actually got done was one route which was directly above the walking track. You can read the trip report and discussion here.

If you wanted to debolt more then feel free. Nobody is going to be unhappy if you get rid of any of the new bolts...especially any of the more pointless/redundant ones.
NPWS Ranger
20/03/2014
5:11:06 PM
Please be advised that the cliffs below the escarpment edge at Mt Keira are a part of the Illawarra Escarpment State Conservation Area and that its an offence (under the National Parks & Wildlife Act) to unlawfully alter, deface or otherwise damage the park. The addition or removal of bolts requires NPWS' approval. The adage "take nothing but photos; leave nothing but footprints" is a good guide. Please appreciate & respect your parks and, if in doubt about what's legally permissible, contact your local NPWS office.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
20/03/2014
5:18:07 PM
On 20/03/2014 NPWS Ranger wrote:
>Please be advised that the cliffs below the escarpment edge at Mt Keira
>are a part of the Illawarra Escarpment State Conservation Area and that
>its an offence (under the National Parks & Wildlife Act) to unlawfully
>alter, deface or otherwise damage the park. The addition or removal of
>bolts requires NPWS' approval. The adage "take nothing but photos; leave
>nothing but footprints" is a good guide. Please appreciate & respect your
>parks and, if in doubt about what's legally permissible, contact your local
>NPWS office.

I wonder if User ID 'NPWS Ranger', is a climber?

Regardless; if he has frequented Chockstone at least semi-regularly, he would likely be aware that the issue of bolting is a contentious* one amongst climbers, and that there are many who respect and respond to the sentiment of his post. In fact I would be prepared to bet significant money that the vast majority of climbers don't bolt, let alone within areas that they shouldn't!

(*The unfortunate recent history of bolting at Mt Keira has shocked more of us than the few it has pleased.)

lionelterray
20/03/2014
5:38:31 PM
The Mt Keira thecrag.com area email user received this email from " batey "' on the 17/3/14 .

From BATEY "Brigetta Face Mt Keira
Hi Mate, Wondering if you were the one responsible for the Retro Bolting of Brigetta face at Mt Keira. Notice there is a lot more bolts then ever existed not to mention a number of the routes now listed as sport climbs and rings less then 1 foot from perfect trad placements. Did you speak with FA and the greater climbing community about the bolting of these routes? There is a good chance the next day i have off work the bolts will be getting chopped as well as a larger number of the retro shit that you are responsible for. If you can give me a good reason to not chop them im open and listening."

In reply, I said :
" re MtKeira bolting project:
- Graeme Hill, Ant Prehn, etal (original crag developers and FA'ers) were consulted on numerous occasions (both in person and via email) .

- a Facebook site - with 60+ users - existed for the 1 year time frame of the project. A log of the routes to be bolted appeared there, and each 'worked on' route was posted there .

- Dave and Gavin were asked on MANY occasions to come and have a look at the work and did so on 'at least' one occasion .

- when I last did a site visit to the crag with the National Parks local head ranger ( Jamie Erskine ) , he specifically stated that " absolutely no new bolting or changes to existing bolts were to be done without first consulting with him". I & HC group were informed about this.

So in summary, you can not unilaterally alter anything at MtKeira - the appropriate National Parks Ranger has been cc'ed on this correspondence.

p.s. re sport/trad. routes: Yes, Space trucken/nursery/nurlegs/crawdad are just another example at MtKeira of trad. routes being extremely close to sport routes - it happens "

White Trash
20/03/2014
5:44:49 PM
On 20/03/2014 lionelterray wrote:
>The Mt Keira thecrag.com area email user received this email from " batey
>"' on the 17/3/14 .
>
>From BATEY "Brigetta Face Mt Keira
> Hi Mate, Wondering if you were the one responsible for the Retro Bolting
>of Brigetta face at Mt Keira. Notice there is a lot more bolts then ever
>existed not to mention a number of the routes now listed as sport climbs
>and rings less then 1 foot from perfect trad placements. Did you speak
>with FA and the greater climbing community about the bolting of these routes?
>There is a good chance the next day i have off work the bolts will be getting
>chopped as well as a larger number of the retro shit that you are responsible
>for. If you can give me a good reason to not chop them im open and listening."
>
>In reply, I said :
> " re MtKeira bolting project:
>- Graeme Hill, Ant Prehn, etal (original crag developers and FA'ers)
>were consulted on numerous occasions (both in person and via email) .
>
>
> - a Facebook site - with 60+ users - existed for the 1 year time frame
>of the project. A log of the routes to be bolted appeared there, and each
>'worked on' route was posted there .
>
> - Dave and Gavin were asked on MANY occasions to come and have a look
>at the work and did so on 'at least' one occasion .
>
>- when I last did a site visit to the crag with the National Parks local
>head ranger ( Jamie Erskine ) , he specifically stated that " absolutely
>no new bolting or changes to existing bolts were to be done without first
>consulting with him". I & HC group were informed about this.
>
>So in summary, you can not unilaterally alter anything at MtKeira - the
>appropriate National Parks Ranger has been cc'ed on this correspondence.
>
>
>p.s. re sport/trad. routes: Yes, Space trucken/nursery/nurlegs/crawdad
>are just another example at MtKeira of trad. routes being extremely close
>to sport routes - it happens "
>

are you implying jamie erskine has condoned your retrobolting even though he posted above you as npws ranger (that name is in profile email adress) saying any bolting is not on?
JonSnow9
20/03/2014
11:02:57 PM
On 20/03/2014 lionelterray wrote:
>The Mt Keira thecrag.com area email user received this email from " batey
>"' on the 17/3/14 .
>
>From BATEY "Brigetta Face Mt Keira
> Hi Mate, Wondering if you were the one responsible for the Retro Bolting
>of Brigetta face at Mt Keira. Notice there is a lot more bolts then ever
>existed not to mention a number of the routes now listed as sport climbs
>and rings less then 1 foot from perfect trad placements. Did you speak
>with FA and the greater climbing community about the bolting of these routes?
>There is a good chance the next day i have off work the bolts will be getting
>chopped as well as a larger number of the retro shit that you are responsible
>for. If you can give me a good reason to not chop them im open and listening."
>
>In reply, I said :
> " re MtKeira bolting project:
>- Graeme Hill, Ant Prehn, etal (original crag developers and FA'ers)
>were consulted on numerous occasions (both in person and via email) .
>
>
> - a Facebook site - with 60+ users - existed for the 1 year time frame
>of the project. A log of the routes to be bolted appeared there, and each
>'worked on' route was posted there .
>
> - Dave and Gavin were asked on MANY occasions to come and have a look
>at the work and did so on 'at least' one occasion .
>
>- when I last did a site visit to the crag with the National Parks local
>head ranger ( Jamie Erskine ) , he specifically stated that " absolutely
>no new bolting or changes to existing bolts were to be done without first
>consulting with him". I & HC group were informed about this.
>
>So in summary, you can not unilaterally alter anything at MtKeira - the
>appropriate National Parks Ranger has been cc'ed on this correspondence.
>
>
>p.s. re sport/trad. routes: Yes, Space trucken/nursery/nurlegs/crawdad
>are just another example at MtKeira of trad. routes being extremely close
>to sport routes - it happens "
>

I thought it was (a bit) of overkill when you sunk a bolt into the little alcove at knee height (right alongside the walking track) just so the water-stained, laminated guide could be attached and tied with flimsy prusik. Oh and the chipping of Travail as well.
One Day Hero
20/03/2014
11:08:29 PM
Terry, who is "Lionel Terray", seems to belong to a type who I'm sure most of us have met over the years, usually in a university climbing club or something similar. No talent, no desire to actually learn any skills, and using climbing as way to chase status or power or some weird shit. He managed to ostracise himself from most/all of the Wollongong climbing scene, which is populated with a bunch of extremely nice people who were too polite to tell him to get fuched.

The general response to his "work" was absolute horror, as he retrobolted, squeeze bolted next to old trad routes, and sunk rings into 5m 40 degree mossy slabs and all manner of shit which no sane climber would view as a route. This really is the worst case I've ever seen of trashing a crag with crazy bolting. Oh, and if anyone questioned the sanity of what he was doing, they were immediately removed from the facebook group so that Terry could continue to pretend that he was consulting with the community.

Please go and chop this clown's bolts. I think australian climbing will suffer in the long run if utter shankers do this sort of thing and it is allowed to stand.
maxdacat
21/03/2014
10:55:17 AM
And dragging a nat park ranger into a local bolting war? Is that really advisable?

rodw
21/03/2014
2:10:38 PM
^^^ this, that was my thoughts too, always better to deal with it in house no matter what side of the fence your sitting on.
One Day Hero
21/03/2014
3:40:24 PM
Yeah, bringing the rangers into it in an attempt to protect a bunch of ridiculous vandalism, after consciously going against the wishes of the whole climbing scene is really a couple of steps beyond acceptable. There are very few people who I feel should be ostracised and actively driven out of the sport. Terry is one of those few.

rodw
21/03/2014
5:22:35 PM
I see why it was done but two bad actions don't make a right one, my concern is repercussions down the track, NPWS is an under funded organisation that has definitely shown in the past to take the easy road of banning climbing then managing....asking them to get involved in the fray could have a cascade affect as you would have to be naive to think they do not converse with each other and use examples elsewhere to justify decisions down the track in other areas.
climberman
21/03/2014
7:50:33 PM
He is definitely the ranger for the Illawarra Escarpment State Conservation Area. I have dealt with Jamie a number of times in a professional sense.

Maybe rather that pursuing Lionel….. which would be an inordinate amount of time for an Agency… just let it go or we can self regulate.

There are 16 messages in this topic.

 

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