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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
All NSW (General) (General) (General)  

Author
Closed Projects?

BlankSlab
22/04/2013
3:56:16 PM
Not wanting to stir up controversy here about bolting wars and what not but im interested in peoples opinions on how long projects should remain closed?

I often browsing through online guides to find the usual "Project Stay Off" from sometime in 2005 or such. So what is an acceptable time for developers to leave closed before they should be opend up to others?

Edit:
I forgot to mention that i assume if someone was interested in a line "closed project" then contactiong the person who equiped it should be acceptable but this is more often then not a first name listed and nothing else.

shortman
22/04/2013
4:57:16 PM
One month.

Or just climb it and don't tell anyone.

The good Dr
22/04/2013
6:02:11 PM
I think 2 years is fair. Allows the developer time to try it in the first year. 12 mths to get stronger if they fail initially with a 12 month injury contingency. Simple.

ashfall tuff
22/04/2013
7:22:54 PM
maybe a few hundred attempts. assuming they have 15 attempts a weekend.....calculator says 300/15 = 20 weeks?
given they've put the work in cleaning it and whatever

Duang Daunk
22/04/2013
7:48:44 PM
On 22/04/2013 The good Dr wrote:
>I think 2 years is fair. Allows the developer time to try it in the first
>year. 12 mths to get stronger if they fail initially with a 12 month injury
>contingency. Simple.
On 22/04/2013 ashfall tuff wrote:
>maybe a few hundred attempts. assuming they have 15 attempts a weekend.....calculator
>says 300/15 = 20 weeks?
>given they've put the work in cleaning it and whatever

2 years? 300 attempts? WTF?
If some bolter can't recognise their lack of ability and bolts something it takes them that long to work then they deserve to have their project taken. Once the glue is dried its game on.
If they want to train to get hard then go do another route already bolted at required grade or stay on the plastic instead of wanking but calling it a project.
Bolting stuff your never going to get up is as bad as retrobolting trad climbs.

rodw
22/04/2013
8:31:51 PM
And people wonder why new areas are kept secret :)

Just ask ..its not that hard to find out who bolted a project...pretty much everyone I know will give away a project if they seriously do not think they will ever do it or been a long time...but really why the need to do it unless you have ticked everything else at the crag?

The bolter obviously doesn't own that piece of rock but like most things courtesy is always appreciated..just because you can do a certain action doesn't mean it should be done.
pecheur
22/04/2013
8:39:58 PM
I suspect DD is trolling a bit, if not he's even dumber than he appears. I suspect if bolters didn't get dibs for a while on a new project / climb there'd be a hell of a lot less high grade bolted climbs doing up.

ambyeok
22/04/2013
8:45:52 PM
On 22/04/2013 Duang Daunk wrote:
>Bolting stuff your never going to get up is as bad as retrobolting trad
>climbs.

I am sure there is a parallel universe somewhere where that statement makes some minute degree of sense. Certainly not this one.

Duang Daunk
22/04/2013
8:55:42 PM
On 22/04/2013 pecheur wrote:
>I suspect DD is trolling a bit, if not he's even dumber than he appears.
> I suspect if bolters didn't get dibs for a while on a new project / climb
>there'd be a hell of a lot less high grade bolted climbs doing up.

See here's the thing peachy. The number of climbers who can climb your high grade bolted stuff is related directly to how many of those climbs there are in existence. The majority of people are never going to climb grade 28+ so you won't be hearing them complaining about whether or not the project is closed or open, but bring that grade down to 18 and see how many whinge if it is tied up for 2 years or 300 wanks.
Anyone bolting into the grade 30's by default has forever to climb their project because they probably know the half dozen others capable of it personally, and this is a different scene to what the OP is on about.

Duang Daunk
22/04/2013
8:59:03 PM
On 22/04/2013 ambyeok wrote:
>On 22/04/2013 Duang Daunk wrote:
>>Bolting stuff your never going to get up is as bad as retrobolting trad
>>climbs.
>
>I am sure there is a parallel universe somewhere where that statement
>makes some minute degree of sense. Certainly not this one.

You don't think it is a waste of time and resources then ambersock?

Macciza
22/04/2013
9:10:30 PM
Well I think if it has not been done since 2005 (at which stage it was posssibly not done for a while already) it is probably pretty safe to assume that it is either done and not updated, or 'open' by virtue of intervening time.
From a 'legal' standpoint the UIAA 'The Mountain Code' gives 3 years grace for people attempting a line ground up on trad gear, so I guess sport halves that and rap-bolted halves it again; which would give them 9 months . . .
Certainly if you are actively trying it i.e. 15 times a week then you really should have it done then; if you are only able to get on it rarely then a little more leeway should be allowed maybe . . .
Also most trad projects are generally considered 'open', (to climbing that is, not bolting) - it just comes down to friendly competition usually - the cliff versus your gear skill and climbing abilities . . .
I am not a great fan of closed projects but greatly appreciate the times when my better-climbing friends allow me my fun and the challenge, when we both know they could probably tick it easily
simone
22/04/2013
9:27:48 PM
It took me over five years to write the guide, so why not let them take their time?
Oh, forgot, I was waiting for them to finish getting up!

BlankSlab
22/04/2013
9:38:04 PM
I wouldn't personally know but i would assume that many developers pass on lines to mates if they feel they will never get round to them. Also think many of the closed projects get forgotten about as in lost inspiration. I guess as RodW said just asking (that is if you believe you have the ability to do it in the first place) most people will be happy if they had their reasonable shot.

Part of the reason for starting this discussion was an article in the last vertical life mag about closed projects. It raised a point about guide book writes including the bolter/developer of routes to recognize there efforts. Does anyone think this kind of approach would have an effect on the number of closed projects out there?


IdratherbeclimbingM9
23/04/2013
10:02:02 AM
On 22/04/2013 Batey wrote:
>Part of the reason for starting this discussion was an article in the
>last vertical life mag about closed projects. It raised a point about guide
>book writes including the bolter/developer of routes to recognize there
>efforts. Does anyone think this kind of approach would have an effect on
>the number of closed projects out there?
>
Noting that they are not routes until they have actually been climbed, I reckon it would encourage unnecessary proliferation of bolted lines taking away future challenges from ensuing generations by dumbing them down to someones first ascent formula by today's standards...
gfdonc
23/04/2013
11:27:24 AM
Back in the old days they just would have used aid, wouldn't they? Then leave it to some stronger bastard to come along and free it.

We need more aid routes, anyway. We seem to be running out.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
23/04/2013
11:35:02 AM
On 23/04/2013 gfdonc wrote:
>Back in the old days they just would have used aid, wouldn't they? Then
>leave it to some stronger bastard to come along and free it.
>
>We need more aid routes, anyway. We seem to be running out.
>
That is the beauty of clean-aid, the strong bastards of the future get an unadulterated adventure experience!

The good Dr
23/04/2013
11:59:31 AM
I thought the theory these days was to wait for some other party to clean and spend some time on an old forgotten project then swoop in with a stronger climber to nab the first ascent from under their noses.

There are 17 messages in this topic.

 

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