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Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
All NSW	(General)	(General)	(General)

Author

Lobster cave NSW send


pmonks

3-Jun-2012
7:41:20 AM

On 2/06/2012 vwills wrote:
>Just cos you lived on top of the crag and dismissed it as a pile of choss.....

Ah Chockie - I love it when you surprise me with logical reasoning of such an exceptional standard...

>the rock is actually immaculate on a low humidity day and the routes have
>been there for about 4 years now.... why should bolting be banned?

Ask NPWS. All I'm doing is reiterating information that was relayed to me (by NPWS staff as well as local climbers who'd explored the park in the 1980s), when I first started sniffing around up there (mid-1990s).

But ignoring the "he said / she said" stuff, the current POM for Bouddi defers to the 1995 National Parks and Wildlife (Land Management) Regulation, which makes it pretty clear that climbing is not allowed without a permit (sections 19.1.d and 19.2), and that you can't install structures of any kind (section 14, bolts specifically covered under 14.1.c) in a NSW National Park.

Whether you agree with it or not, the regulation is pretty clear.

> Apart
>from metal in the rock and some chalk marks there appears to have been
>little impact from climbers. (I am actually serious on that point, the
>place has been really clean the times I have visited)

Yes I've heard that argument a million times and you know what? It doesn't matter one iota - NPWS has a long history of simply shutting off access to groups that piss them off, and deliberately flouting their regulations seems like a good way to get up their nose.

As a mate of mine used to say: "don't mess about with anyone who can f-ck up your life with a form letter". NPWS (whether we like it or not) are in that camp.

>PS: There are bolted crags throughout Bouddi NP.

If there are they were all developed in the last 10 years or so. All of the older bolted crags near Bouddi are outside the park boundaries (Phegan's Bay, Ward's Hill, Black Mt etc.).


Loz and Tim

3-Jun-2012
8:44:57 AM

Hi Peter, there are lots of crags in that National Park that you may not be aware of, unsure if NPWS know either. There are another 4 developed areas with bolts within 1-2km of lobster, along with the another 35+ bolted crags on the coast (lots bolted pre 1999). When we started to develop Lobster I contacted NPWS several times and the lady I spoke to, had some e-mails back and forth, was unaware of why i was asking permission and how to go about it. According to their very vague map, the cave lies right on the border, the lip may be in but the back walls not!

The plan is also only 'Draft' at this stage and I am unaware if it would hold up in court. It wouldn't be the first time NPWS have been taken to court and were crying bluff.( a case involving a some land they were trying to claim that wasn't theirs). I have spoken to a town planner who gave me some examples of this.

We had some signs appear a few years back on some bolts from an apparent 'Ranger' and again contacted NPWS and they knew nothing about these.

Until we see the official un-draft POM or get physically removed from the rock we will still be climbing there.

Have you climbed there??

Mr Poopypants

3-Jun-2012
9:10:46 AM

Got to say that in recent negotiations with NPWS we've found they have been quite reasonable and fair minded about climbing, at least in the Bue Mts NP.

I was involved in trying to get the Greens to stop that regulation, we collected a few thousand signatures in a couple of days but the Greens did a sweetheart deal with the govt and backed off. I've always been curious as to whether they renewed it.

My understanding is that regulations have to be signed off again every five years?? Anyone know anything about it?

G.


Sonic

3-Jun-2012
12:02:27 PM

On 3/06/2012 Loz and Tim wrote:
According to their very vague map, the cave lies right on the
>border, the lip may be in but the back walls not!

For $9.50 you can buy a CMA topographical map that will have the definative boundaries on it. Its not that hard to find things out when you realize theres more than just the internet available!

>The plan is also only 'Draft' at this stage and I am unaware if it would
>hold up in court.

Wrong. It defers to the '85 plan of management until finalisation, so as long as that is referenced it would hold. The '85 plan of management is available at uni libraries.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/18955800?q=subject%3A%22Bouddi+National+Park+%28N.S.W.%29%22&c=book
Whether climbing is covered or not is for you to check.

Unfortunately, saying 'I didn't realise I could get my hands on the old PoM' wouldn't hold up in court either.

>Have you climbed there??

I have. And you guys were there. Its a rad, out-of-the-way spot and it would be a shame if it caused trouble. (and Vanessa, the rock is absolute rubbish, even on a good day!)

I'm working a bit with NPWS at the moment and they're not all doom and gloom.


pmonks

3-Jun-2012
1:05:10 PM

On 3/06/2012 Loz and Tim wrote:
>Have you climbed there??

Yep - see here and here (both pages are from circa 1996, although I've climbed there more recently too). It's "Little Lobster" on the first page (that's the local name for the small beach directly downhill from the cave).

christof

13-Jun-2012
1:14:58 PM

Back to the main topic..... The route looks rad!!!
Is there a guide anywhere for the area?


arniearms

13-Jun-2012
5:09:36 PM

On 30/05/2012 Pommy wrote:
>Maybe he should start work on the hardest project of all - the CC guidebook!

^ this might answer ur question.


Adski

14-Jun-2012
1:15:27 PM

Nice work Pipertron!

There are 28 messages in this topic.