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Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
All NSW	(General)	(General)	(General)

Author

Bell Supercrag

Mr Poopypants

2-May-2012
3:17:44 PM

Yeah, always too damned foggy to find the base of the routes.

baz74

2-May-2012
4:11:36 PM

http://www.upskillclimbing.com/

Pics halfway down page.


Sonic

2-May-2012
5:55:08 PM

On 2/05/2012 nmonteith wrote:

>Are there any other crags in the Bluies that are already banned? (apart
>from obvious areas near major tourist tracks). I can't think of a precident
>to get this area closed.

Its not the climbing that is the issue, nor will it get banned. Access is and will. Its the fact its in a declared wilderness area and the fact that a track has been cut into this area. There is no need for a precedent as the access methods (Ill avoid specifying them for others sakes) actually defy the outlined rules for use of a wilderness area (There is alot more to this arguement, but I'm not going into it here). You can't just climb and bolt anywhere in a NP, as much as alot of people seem to believe otherwise. Unfortunately there is more to finding new crags than just developing the cliffs themselves.


BundyBear

3-May-2012
8:43:23 AM

On 2/05/2012 Sonic wrote:

>Its not the climbing that is the issue, nor will it get banned. Access
>is and will. Its the fact its in a declared wilderness area and the fact
>that a track has been cut into this area.

The track already existed !!


nmonteith

3-May-2012
10:30:58 AM

I haven't seen much evidence of a track being cut in there to any great extent. You follow an old well beaten bush walking track (through very open bush) for 90% of the walk-in, then you scramble down some rock slabs - then use a couple of rungs to get to the base. Its hardly a slash and burn access track. Most of the track existed before climbers went there - canyoners and walkers are regular visitors.

Mr Poopypants

3-May-2012
11:04:25 AM

Understand the message, but -
Bell is not in the Grose Wilderness Area. (it is in the NP)

Linze

3-May-2012
11:27:33 AM

On 2/05/2012 Sonic wrote:
>
>Its not the climbing that is the issue, nor will it get banned. Access
>is and will.

will???? classic case of access anxiety it seems - symptoms include a belief that regulatory bodies have a far greater interest in ones trival recreational activites than they actually do and a feeling that all government agencies comprise only of individuals secretly plotting to ruin everyones fun... the last time I saw a case this bad was the 'shipley is gonna be closed you better ring the council' beat up about a decade ago. I doubt anyone who matters at NP cares about the rungs.

cogsy

3-May-2012
11:35:11 AM

Interested to see where you got your information from, Sonic.
As Neil allready has stated, the track was not "cut into this area". the track actually follows one of the old exit tracks from one of the major canyons in the area. It has become a little easier to follow over the last few years, but it is still possible to get lost in a few places.
If you know the area you will know that the access track to canyons such as Dalpura and Jungaburra canyon in that area are much larger than the track to Bell crag.
If this is the reason NP will ban access, then I assume they plan to ban access to all of the canyons in that area.
Like Mr. Poopypants said, Bell is not actually in the Grose Wilderness area. It is reasonably close to the old colliery on the Darling Causeway, and lies in the NP, but outside the wilderness area.

Mr Poopypants

3-May-2012
12:52:47 PM

Linze,

Yeah, there are often beat ups about stuff, but don't think problems don't exist and can lead to closures. I assume you are referring to the problems at Shipley in 2000. I can assure you they were not a beat up. Local climbers met repeatedly with the Council, removed some offending routes and bolts and redirected some others. Problem solved. Some of the same officials are currently involved in the access negotiations to the County, Dam Cliffs and the Freezer (not council).
Mikl was right about the camping - it's a small issue for us to deal with and avoid in return for being able to climb hassle-free at places like Diamond Falls.

I for one think it's well worth fixing the little things up for land managers so we get to keep the big thing (climbing).
G.

edit: Oh, yeah. And, so far the NPWS haven't raised any problems with Bell. They are more concerned about Narrowneck.

cogsy

3-May-2012
1:16:35 PM

Bit of a bummer about Narrow Neck, Glen... there's some fantastic "secret" crags out there, ie Red Ledge and the Farside. The access to both of them basically follows old rough walking tracks (Redledge pass and Rockpile gully, both mentioned in various bushwalking guides). It would be great to see a topo to them on the net.
There are certainly loads of other users of the Narrowneck area (walkers, mountain bikers).
I wonder what we could do to sort the situation out with national parks?

widewetandslippery

3-May-2012
1:36:25 PM

Shazza and Daryl bushwalkers who drive a sandman find chalk and bolts ugly. The concept of rockclimbing is beyond them. They want wilderness a stroll from the Barina. Geuss where most sport crags are...... There are a lot of Shazzas and Daryls out ther

Linze

3-May-2012
1:44:37 PM

On 3/05/2012 Mr Poopypants wrote:
>Linze,
>
>Yeah, there are often beat ups about stuff, but don't think problems don't
>exist and can lead to closures. I assume you are referring to the problems
>at Shipley in 2000. I can assure you they were not a beat up. Local climbers
>met repeatedly with the Council, removed some offending routes and bolts
>and redirected some others. Problem solved. Some of the same officials
>are currently involved in the access negotiations to the County, Dam Cliffs
>and the Freezer (not council).
>Mikl was right about the camping - it's a small issue for us to deal with
>and avoid in return for being able to climb hassle-free at places like
>Diamond Falls.
>
>I for one think it's well worth fixing the little things up for land managers
>so we get to keep the big thing (climbing).
>G.
>
yeah, I appreciate that real issues exist, and that we should take approriate step to sort them. but i also think that in some climbers need to get over the land managers are out to shut us down mentality and respect the capacity of most working in the public service to consult with the relevant communities and come up with more creative solutions that crag closures (and doubt (m)any of them really want to see this happen as they would understand that climbing is a legitmate use).

I remember one council staff member getting fed up with people contacting them in a panic about shipley. The callers it seemed, were armed only with a bunch of nonsense info that 'someone' had been sprouting at the crag. hence my aversion to sonic's 'will get closed' garbage - i think that that sort of stuff is more threatening to access than a few rungs.

cogsy

3-May-2012
2:36:30 PM

That's a good response from Linze... I know that the access to the Farside was changed to follow some fixed ropes down a steep rock ramp (which would benefit a lot from some rungs).
The old walkers track (down "rockpile gully", a very old and rough, overgrown track), followed a very loose and erosion prone gully, but the climbers track follows a series of rock platforms, which are pretty erosion proof.

Mr Poopypants

3-May-2012
2:47:49 PM

Sorry, Cogmeister, didn't mean to cause alarm (Hey, Linze, you were right! :-)

There really isn't any major issue. Michael was just asking people not to create one by camping out on the plateau.

NPWS are actually pretty well onside about Narrowneck. The issues really are about overall impact. Of course, climbers do contribute to that but the Parks people realise there are climbers who will pitch in to try to help with issues overall.

The track issues were really about the impact on two endangered species. Fair enough, I say. NPWS aren't over the top. They are monitoring it and will worry about it if it looks like becoming an issue. They don't seem to be out to create problems out of nothing. They are grossly under-resourced as it is.

They have asked that climbers not camp at Narrowneck, at all if possible. With walkers, mountain bikers etc all adding to it there are some problems with parking, vegetation push-back etc. They have asked the same of the other groups, too.

Most people probably don't realise it, but part of Narrowneck is Sydney Water Catchment, so special rules and laws apply. The Parks have to be sensitive about that. So far they have indicated that the climbing there is not an issue. Which is good.

They acknowledge that we CAN camp at Narrowneck, just ask that we don't. I don't think it hurts to choose somewere else, just to help with reducing the impact.

Climbing is fine, they just want us to help reduce other impacts so they can avoid intervention. Try not to camp out there or create new fireplaces, crap on the ground, etc.

The Draft Plan of Management for the Blue Mts NP is due out soon (overdue).

Oh, and try to bolt easier routes, would you?

G.

cogsy

3-May-2012
3:17:13 PM

Wow, that sounds pretty good, Glen.
It's a long time since I went out to the Farside, and there are loads of new routes since I've been there. I might make another attempt at getting an up to date topo onto the online guides (ACA or the Sydney Rockies)...Maybe I can convince the gang to add it to Stu's new online guide.... those guys put up so many new routes they've probably forgotten anything more than a year ago!
The crag is a bit like Bell without the easy routes... about 25 pumpers in the 24-30 range, and not really anything worth bolting or climbing that's easier! Lots of shade though (the opposite to Redledge and Boganville, which are baking suntraps).

widewetandslippery

3-May-2012
3:58:44 PM

Rodw is the dewalt looking good?


kuu

3-May-2012
4:23:35 PM

On 3/05/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>Shazza and Daryl bushwalkers who drive a sandman find chalk and bolts ugly.
>The concept of rockclimbing is beyond them. They want wilderness a stroll
>from the Barina. Geuss where most sport crags are...... There are a lot
>of Shazzas and Daryls out there

Dave, I think I know people like the Shazza and Daryl you refer to. I wrote about them in 2002.
Yeh, even way back then the problem was apparent. You can find my monologue at:
http://www.sydneyrockies.org.au/pdfs/at_the_interface.pdf

If you're interested, take a look soon, before it disappears from the interweb.


Sonic

3-May-2012
9:26:38 PM

Ok, so I was under the impression that the track at least went through the edge of the wilderness area. If this were the case it wouldn't matter if the track was there already or not - It would have been effectively off-limits due to rehab requirements. Fair enough if I'm wrong - unlike many I can admit it!

And Linze - I perfectly understand the mentality of the land managers and NPWS management - I'm learning from them at the moment.


rodw

3-May-2012
10:19:44 PM

On 3/05/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>Rodw is the dewalt looking good?

I don't need to travel that far to bolt an uninspiring low graded route...leave me out of it :)

Speaking of uninspiring routes...you up for Gello sunday dude?


nmonteith

3-May-2012
11:14:39 PM

On 3/05/2012 Sonic wrote:
>Ok, so I was under the impression that the track at least went through
>the edge of the wilderness area. If this were the case it wouldn't matter
>if the track was there already or not - It would have been effectively
>off-limits due to rehab requirements. Fair enough if I'm wrong - unlike
>many I can admit it!

The carpark is right next to some high voltage powerlines which cut through the bush. The dirt road access is clearly for the electrical maintenance workers. The track you start walking on appears to actually be an overgrown road from ye olde times and was well established before any climbers started using it.

There are 51 messages in this topic.