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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

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Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Arapiles (General) (General) (General) [ Arapiles Guide | Arapiles Images ] 

Author
New Arapiles Select Guide
simey
27/03/2006
5:01:01 PM
Work is underway on a new Arapiles Selected Climbs guidebook. Glenn and myself are on the lookout for climbing photos as well as any feedback on the current book.

The new guide will look radically different and will include…

Full-colour throughout, additional topos, lots more climbing photos, alphabetical index, approximately 80 additional routes, whereabouts of all new rap stations and lower-offs, more quotes, more humour, symbols highlighting sun/shade aspect, as well as a few other features.

We want to hear your opinions on grades, stars, descriptions and warnings for particular routes. Tell us about any worthwhile climbs that we may have left out of the current guide. And let us know whether you would rather see V grades used in the bouldering section, or whether we should continue with the easy to extreme classification that is currently used.

As for photos… we welcome any worthwhile climbing and bouldering photos. In particular we would love to see atmospheric photos that include easier and middle-grade climbs, helmeted climbers, and pics from cliffs that haven’t been photographed much before. There won’t be much remuneration for photographers, but we can promise a free guide as well as a few beers at the pub if we publish more than one photo.

All comments and feedback can be submitted on this thread.

Or, if you happen to be in Natimuk, feel free to drop into Simey’s place (corner of Main Street and Jory Street) if you want to submit pics, or provide feedback in person.

Digital photos can also be emailed to Glenn Tempest at glenn@osp.com.au

Slides, prints (colour, B/W) are also welcome.

Don’t hesitate to get in touch if you think you have something of interest.



Dalai
27/03/2006
5:18:25 PM
On 27/03/2006 simey wrote:
> And let us know whether you would rather
>see V grades used in the bouldering section, or whether we should continue
>with the easy to extreme classification that is currently used.

Great to hear you guys are working on upgrading an already brilliant topo guide!

Bouldering Grades - big job getting concensus on V grades for all the boulders, but please definitely get rid of the current system. It's a huge copout using this grading system for the guide...

Numbers shouldn't matter, but people do want to be able to track and compare with problems and grades from other places, like they do now with climbs.

gordoste
27/03/2006
7:34:54 PM
For what it's worth I agree, V grades are the way to go... great to hear about a new guide! The current one is already one of the best guides around.
simey
27/03/2006
10:51:01 PM
On 27/03/2006 Dalai wrote:
>Bouldering Grades - big job getting concensus on V grades for all the boulders, but please definitely get rid of the current system. It's a huge copout using this grading system for the guide...

There are two main reasons why we didn't use V grades in the current grade... one is because neither Glenn or myself were familiar enough with V grades to even start grading all the problems. The other reason was because I felt that V grades were a bit elitist as the lowest grades start at a fairly difficult level (although having heard the story direct from Sherm as to why this is so, I have to admit that I liked his answer).

We haven't had much feedback concerning the bouldering section, although Nic Sellars made an effort to tell us that he liked the system we adopted.

I don't think Glenn or myself have a strong opinion either way as to whether we use V grades or not, but we would definitely need some experienced boulderers go through the current guide and grade each problem accordingly (any takers?)

I would also like to know other climbers/boulderers comments regarding V grades. Could bouldering grading be improved? Ewbank obviously decided that other grading systems from around the world were flawed which is why he created Australia's own grading system Would such an idea be relevant nowadays?

All feedback welcome.





KP
28/03/2006
8:40:01 AM
kachoong= one star
simey
28/03/2006
8:57:57 AM
On 28/03/2006 KP wrote:
>kachoong= one star

No worries KP. In fact we will also have a special page in the Arapiles book devoted to your new route in the Youies. Its aim will be to let overseas and interstate climbers know that their trip to Victoria isn't complete unless they travel to the Youies and experience some genuine three-star magic.


JJ
28/03/2006
8:58:32 AM
Simey,

if we had some potential pics, what's the best way to get them to you?

Thanks
JJ

cruze
28/03/2006
9:14:09 AM
Standard V grades. then V0, VM and VE in decreasing order of difficulty. Should put VE at around one move wonder 18 or less. Or maybe just V grades on the harder problems so people needing some correlation have one.

cheesehead
28/03/2006
9:30:57 AM
Yup, V grades.
The current Mentz/Tempest guide is already an international winner, with the exception of the bouldering - if only for using a unique system.
simey
28/03/2006
10:03:12 AM
On 28/03/2006 JJ wrote:
>Simey,
>
>if we had some potential pics, what's the best way to get them to you?
>
>Thanks
>JJ

If the pics are digital, then you can email them straight to Glenn Tempest at glenn@osp.com.au as Glenn has broadband and I don't.
Or you could burn them onto a CD and post to me (my address is PO Box 111 Natimuk 3409) You can also post any prints or slides as well.

If you are visiting Arapiles you can download them directly from your camera to my computer (providing you have the connecting cables with you) when you pass through Natimuk. I live on the corner of Main Street and Jory Street. You can call me on (03) 5387 1465 beforehand if you like.

look forward to seeing them

simon

billk
28/03/2006
11:29:59 AM
On 28/03/2006 cruze wrote:
>Standard V grades. then V0, VM and VE in decreasing order of difficulty.
>Should put VE at around one move wonder 18 or less. Or maybe just V grades
>on the harder problems so people needing some correlation have one.

Second this. V grades are useful for serious boulderers. The rest of us just need to know that the bouldering is easy enough for playing around on, warming up etc. VM and VE will do the job for the easy stuff.
Paul
28/03/2006
11:57:45 AM
Hey Simey

Could the new guide be spiral bound so that it is easy to keep it on the page which you are using when you have it in your day pack when climbing so that you dont have to flip through and find your page every time you get it out.

Paul
mikl law
28/03/2006
12:12:14 PM
Hey Simey,
Could the new guide come with someone cute to carry it, and belay you too? And an option whereby every route you tick gets upgraded?
Mikl

rodw
28/03/2006
1:42:07 PM
On 28/03/2006 mikl law wrote:
>And an option whereby every route you tick gets upgraded?

Hasnt that happened with all your old FA's anyway?

adski
28/03/2006
1:44:47 PM
Spiral binding is tres handy, I have a cycletouring guide to the outback that's done this way and it works well.
simey
28/03/2006
2:03:44 PM
Regarding spiral binding... I have two concerns.

How durable are they? If the guide gets bashed around in your pack and the binding gets bent out of shape, does it then become difficult to turn the pages?

Also, we will be using double-page spreads for a few of the photos. A spiral binding might detract.

We have always ensured that our guides were stitch-bound and have been pretty happy with their durability.

Goodvibes
28/03/2006
2:13:04 PM
ever heard of a book mark?
simey
28/03/2006
2:18:26 PM
On 28/03/2006 cruze wrote:
>Standard V grades. then V0, VM and VE in decreasing order of difficulty.
>Should put VE at around one move wonder 18 or less. Or maybe just V grades
>on the harder problems so people needing some correlation have one.

Excuse my ignorance... but what do VM and VE stand for?

As for applying V grades to Arapiles boulder problems... How about this...
Photo-copy the bouldering section out of the back of the current guide (or alternatively I will photo-copy a few sets and you can pick up a copy from my place), then cruise around the Mount and scribble down grades next to the problems you are familiar with. Afterwards drop it off at my place, or mail it back to me.

If a few people do this I should be able to get a clearer idea regarding grades.

Copies of the bouldering section will be available from my place from this weekend.

PS. Is there anyone out there who thinks bouldering grades are only good for a dick waggle and unnecessary?


Dalai
28/03/2006
2:31:51 PM
I assume VE = V Easy and VM = V Medium?

Given that V grade scale currently goes down to V0- (approximately grade 19), it is fair enough to list anything easier than that with the one grade and not bother with additional increments such as VE or VM.

As for bouldering grades having relevance, the same could be said with any other grading scale attributed to say routes. Given that it's impossible to know how much of the Ewbank scale is allocated for the gear component (hence still a reliance for guide book comments if the gear is poor) then climbing grades being a scale to judge difficulty is just as much of a "dick waggle".

cruze
28/03/2006
2:41:55 PM
On 28/03/2006 simey wrote:

>PS. Is there anyone out there who thinks bouldering grades are only good
>for a dick waggle and unnecessary?
>
Simey on an insecure high ball coming to the final move, unknown grade: "mmmm, if I knew this finished at V16, maybe I wouldn't have committed so much..." Yeah I reckon grades can be handy.

I was just making a suggestion about the potential to V grade the boulders at Araps. The VE (easy) and VM (moderate) grades aren't new or ground breaking. They just allow people like me to pick the easy ones to have a go at (even sans mat for example). There are heaps of the "I" grade problems in the select guide that could be put into this category. In the end it doesn't really matter, although I like the little rocks around the mount, I once heard bouldering at Araps likened to "masturbating in a whore house".

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