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Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
All NSW	(General)	(General)	(General)

Author

Shackles and the sheriff of Shipley


Cranky

28-Apr-2011
12:35:11 PM

On 28/04/2011 bones wrote:
>a synopsis, in my opinion.
>
>People spend money to equip routes and would prefer if people reduce wear
>on them as much as possible. It doesn't take much effort to clean a route
>in most cases, so you might as well help out. In occasional situations
>it might be a pain in the ass, and it's not the end of the world if the
>rope runs through the shackles every now and then in these cases.
>If you see beginners putting excessive wear on shackles, highlight it
>nicely but don't be an asshole, it's not worth it.

A good synopsis Mr bones.

another dave

28-Apr-2011
1:18:27 PM

Just a question for all you rebolters out there.
Why do you rebolt a route? Sure the anchors are getting very worn and dangerous. But no doubt you have done the route a 1000 times and it will take you many hours and $$$$ to fix it up. All for no reward and no glory in the first accent.

I have bolted one route in my life, with Mikl's drill. It was fun choosing the line and where to place the bolts. With re-bolting you don't even get that.....


nmonteith

28-Apr-2011
1:46:16 PM

Because I don't want to see my friends dead and I don't want climbing to be banned because someone dies.

rolsen1

28-Apr-2011
2:41:19 PM

On 28/04/2011 Sabu wrote:
>On 28/04/2011 tris wrote:
>>Simey, why couldn't you just climb up after the less experienced climbers
>>and clean it then?
>Because that would involve simey having to climb..! :P
>
>I'm bemused by this topic because I don't see how hard it is to put some
>draws on and lower off if everyone wants to have a go on the climb. As
>for the debate about lowering off or rapping off; I know i'm slightly more
>comfortable with the former given you can stay in the system the entire
>time whereas rapping involves removing yourself and equalising the rope
>before you can get back in. That said, there can be confusion with the
>lower offs when a climber says "safe" then wants to get back on belay etc,
>so from that perspective rapping off minimises the potential error from
>someone else.

So you're a bit uncomfortable about removing yourself from the system to rap (even though its not hard) but you expect someone without the confidence to lead the route to do same thing? Or you expect the leader to re-climb the route just to save the anchors a tiny bit of wear? The same amount of wear if they had both lead two separate routes?


Miguel75

28-Apr-2011
3:00:13 PM

On 28/04/2011 simey wrote:
>Talk about a load of wankers....

Isn't it a gaggle of wankers?


Sabu

28-Apr-2011
3:02:54 PM

On 28/04/2011 rolsen1 wrote:
>So you're a bit uncomfortable about removing yourself from the system
>to rap (even though its not hard) but you expect someone without the confidence
>to lead the route to do same thing?
I would expect if one were seconding a leader they would/should know how to lower off properly (ie keeping a length of rope secured to them & being anchored to the bolts while untying and rethreading).

>Or you expect the leader to re-climb
>the route just to save the anchors a tiny bit of wear? The same amount
>of wear if they had both lead two separate routes?
This depends on whether one is top roping the route or leading/seconding. If it were top roping with beginners, yes I would expect a leader at the end of the day to climb up and clean the route. Its not hard ;)


nmonteith

28-Apr-2011
3:25:27 PM

On 28/04/2011 Sabu wrote:
>I would expect if one were seconding a leader they would/should know how
>to lower off properly (ie keeping a length of rope secured to them & being
>anchored to the bolts while untying and rethreading).

You would think that - but then there are places like Shipley where total gym bunnies are very common (its not quite as bad as Kangaroo Point though). It's quite normal to see people doing really dangerous shit when rethreading. The usual mistake is someone only clipping to one bolt, completely untying and then rethreading. I reckon I see this at least once every time I go to Shipley.


Eduardo Slabofvic

28-Apr-2011
4:12:14 PM

On 28/04/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>>The usual mistake is someone only clipping to one bolt, completely untying
>and then rethreading.

Ask DaveJ about that one. I get sweaty palms just thinking about it.

bones

28-Apr-2011
5:31:58 PM

On 28/04/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>The usual mistake is someone only clipping to one bolt, completely untying
>and then rethreading. I reckon I see this at least once every time I go
>to Shipley.

Hmm I'm guilty of this, I always just clip to one bolt to rethread. I've never really considered the consequences until now.

Edit: Although now that I think about it, I often don't untie completely to rethread (overhand knot to my harness) so if a bolt failed I'd only fall to the last draw.

SteveH

28-Apr-2011
6:39:26 PM

On 28/04/2011 bones wrote:
>
>Edit: Although now that I think about it, I often don't untie completely
>to rethread (overhand knot to my harness) so if a bolt failed I'd only
>fall to the last draw.

Lead fall onto the last draw (which would take you past it, not to it) on a overhand knot,. Could be interesting! Hope you don't clip it to your gear loops!

aaw

28-Apr-2011
8:49:15 PM

Out of interest:

1. Do most people use a couple of quick draws, gate opposed on anchors or locking carabiners with slings, or quick draws with lockers or some other combination?
2. How do most people achieve the two attachment points from the harness to anchor? QuickDraw to belay loop and cow tail?


ambyeok

28-Apr-2011
9:26:53 PM

On 28/04/2011 aaw wrote:
>Out of interest:
>
>1. Do most people use a couple of quick draws, gate opposed on anchors
>or locking carabiners with slings, or quick draws with lockers or some
>other combination?
>2. How do most people achieve the two attachment points from the harness
>to anchor? QuickDraw to gear loop and cow tail?

Crickey dicks, you didnt just say "gear loop" did you?


ambyeok

28-Apr-2011
9:29:09 PM

I only ever attach to one bolt. I clip to the ring on my prince albert using an old mouse cable.

aaw

28-Apr-2011
9:41:27 PM

On 28/04/2011 ambyeok wrote:
>
>Crickey dicks, you didnt just say "gear loop" did you?

Sorry meant belay loop (fixed).


ChuckNorris

28-Apr-2011
11:08:41 PM

No the best situation is:

Lead climber clips to anchors with draws and lowers down (or downclimbs). Second climbs up the lead end of rope and then unclips anchors without weighting them and then downclimbs and cleans route at the same time.


freesolo

29-Apr-2011
7:19:13 PM

most of the people i learned with and climbed with the first few years, rapped cleaned to reduce wear on fixed gear. i was quite shocked when i went to a popular area and got on a classic route and found the hangers!! worn halfway thru from people lowering/toproping off of hangers.

unless the routes is extremely overhanging, rap cleaning is a piece of piss. if you don't know how to safely re-thread the rope, and rap, you really shouldn't be climbing anything above your partner's limit (so that they can do the cleaning for you)

80% of n. american's top rope off their own draws. 60% of europeans do, and unfortunately, most asians lower off the anchor because they are idiots.

as far as Aussies, it's a mixed bag depending on the Bluies or Araps climber. i would guess 50% of Aussies lower off of anchors.


aarond

29-Apr-2011
7:31:30 PM

i saw people top roping through the rings on Transylvania at Araps. made getting down a bit annoying because i only had 1 rope.

looked like it would have been chewing up their rope pretty bad tho.


bw

29-Apr-2011
7:45:39 PM

On 29/04/2011 freesolo wrote:
>rap cleaning is a piece of
>piss. if you don't know how to safely re-thread the rope, tie in again,
>and rap, you really shouldn't be climbing anything above your partner's
>limit (so that they can do the cleaning for you)
>
>..... they are idiots....
>

tie in again to rap?

martym

30-Apr-2011
6:23:47 AM

On 29/04/2011 freesolo wrote:
>80% of n. american's top rope off their own draws. 60% of europeans do,
>and unfortunately, most asians lower off the anchor because they are idiots.
>as far as Aussies, it's a mixed bag depending on the Bluies or Araps climber.
>i would guess 50% of Aussies lower off of anchors. [citation needed]

and 75% of statistics are made up.

Fish Boy

1-May-2011
10:41:48 AM

freesolo, you're a racist tool.

There are 104 messages in this topic.