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Crag & Route Beta

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First trad lead recommendations at Araps?

Wendy

10-Apr-2011
8:42:17 PM

On 10/04/2011 simey wrote:
>I agree with Wendy with regard to the focus being about the process not
>the grade. However if the person has done a lot of seconding, moves well
>on rock and appears to have some feel for climbing, then there is no reason
>you can't put them on something slightly harder early on. Leading poxy
>rambles (such as descent gullies) can sometimes make the process a bit
>too mickey mouse.

Who's been suggesting descent gullies????

Both Exodus (6) and Revolver Crack (7) are quality routes
>with excellent protection and are excellent leads for someone on their
>first day, although you might start with something easier depending on
>their experience.
>

>Although Wendy bagged Camalot, I think it is pretty good as an early lead.
>The start is straightfoward and there is gear, the crux is very well protected
>(take big hexes) and the rest of the route is steep, positive and has excellent
>protection. I like the fact that the route is short so you can clearly
>monitor how the leader is faring.

I remember the last beginner with a feel for climbing you put on Camalot as his first lead. A little birdy told me he said he was abjectly petrified on it and enjoyed his 2nd and 3rd leads of the much better chosen Bullet Buttress and Little Revolver crack a lot more.
>

Sturge

11-Apr-2011
4:31:43 AM

>I remember the last beginner with a feel for climbing you put on Camalot
>as his first lead. A little birdy told me he said he was abjectly petrified
>on it and enjoyed his 2nd and 3rd leads of the much better chosen Bullet
>Buttress and Little Revolver crack a lot more.
>>
>

Isn't being "abjectly petrified" part of the game? Everything will seem easier after being thrown in the deep end.

Wendy

11-Apr-2011
8:03:17 AM

On 11/04/2011 Sturge wrote:

>>
>
>Isn't being "abjectly petrified" part of the game? Everything will seem
>easier after being thrown in the deep end.

If you continue to spout such rubbish at me I shall have to say "ni" to you until you stop.

Ni ni ni!!!!


evanbb

11-Apr-2011
11:08:58 AM

On 9/04/2011 Wendy wrote:
>First leads are about the process not the grade. There are too many digits
>in most of those suggestions.

Tend to agree. I think my first lead was Cobb and Co around on Bushrangers. It's a 4.


gordoste

11-Apr-2011
11:15:13 AM

Would never recommend Piccolo as a first lead due to the blankness of the crux.

Hammer and Sickle at Dec Crag are both fine.

My first lead was Son of Epic at Buffalo (although I did "cheat" by scrambling up the chimney on the R to get a cam in the horizontal break).

bl@ke

11-Apr-2011
12:04:38 PM

Scary Stuff S-dog

climbingjac

11-Apr-2011
12:27:39 PM

I think choose beginner routes that do not require cams. Wires, hexes and slings will be ample for loads of routes. Cams introduce a different skillset requirement and unnecessary risk early on, imo

Linze

11-Apr-2011
2:45:56 PM

On 9/04/2011 gfdonc wrote:
>To start the list, what do ppl think of:
>Camelot 10
>Piccolo 11
>Digeridoo 12
>Diapason 8 (?)

Piccolo!? i reckon you can climb double this grade and get less thought provoking cruxes...
about a decade since i did it, but how about trapeze? just tell em they will need to use a couple of slings to prevent rope drag


Sabu

11-Apr-2011
2:59:19 PM

On 11/04/2011 Linze wrote:
>about a decade since i did it, but how about trapeze? just tell em they
>will need to use a couple of slings to prevent rope drag
No way! The combination of an undercut wall, need for careful footwork, rope drag and the mere fact they have to traverse instead of climb up could lead to an unpleasant experience for all should it go pear shaped!


cruze

11-Apr-2011
3:23:17 PM

I would recommend starting low and placing gear all the time. Yes it will be boring for the advanced second belaying/cleaning but after a half- dozen sewn up easy routes the climber will be able to progress to the well-protected organ pipe routes in no time. Sorry I can't be more specific but the typical haunts of mitre rock and bushrangers are likely to yield gold.

bones

11-Apr-2011
3:23:27 PM

It obviously depends on the person, but generally I'd choose something rediculously easy with lots of easy nut placements, relaxed stances to place from and a single pitch walk off so you can check their anchor easily. After that you can give them milage by following them up some easy mulitpitch classics under gr 10. Once they're got the basics and are hooked on climbing you can start sandbagging them.

Linze

11-Apr-2011
3:35:50 PM

On 11/04/2011 Sabu wrote:
>On 11/04/2011 Linze wrote:
>>about a decade since i did it, but how about trapeze? just tell em they
>>will need to use a couple of slings to prevent rope drag
>No way! The combination of an undercut wall, need for careful footwork,
>rope drag and the mere fact they have to traverse instead of climb up could
>lead to an unpleasant experience for all should it go pear shaped!

thats cleared that up then.... seems i got sandbagged, as i think it was my first lead... still gotta be easier than piccolo ???

how about mari then.... hehe...


ambyeok

11-Apr-2011
3:39:36 PM

My first was Mesa, gr. 8. I was sent up sans-cam and I think it was a good choice, i.e. wires and hexes only to get you started. Cams come easy later.


ambyeok

11-Apr-2011
3:40:43 PM

p.s. Of course, mentor boy had me setting up plenty of anchors on the deck first.

citationx

11-Apr-2011
3:48:30 PM

On 11/04/2011 Linze wrote:
>On 9/04/2011 gfdonc wrote:
>>To start the list, what do ppl think of:
>>Camelot 10
>>Piccolo 11
>>Digeridoo 12
>>Diapason 8 (?)
>
>Piccolo!? i reckon you can climb double this grade and get less thought
>provoking cruxes...

I reckon this to be true, while piccolo is probably my most repeated and thoroughly enjoyed climb, it's pretty stiff for the grade and there's not much to make an anchor with up top unless you know what you're doing.

I endorse exodus as a good starting climb too. i'm sure it can be followed by another on the north wall, furhter left, or an easy one on the south face afterwards...

PDRM

11-Apr-2011
4:00:23 PM

Maybe heresy, but as the request was 'first lead' not 'first trad lead' I'd consider letting a beginner leader getting a couple of sport leads under their belt; learning the rope skills, clipping, getting some head space issues sorted before adding gear to the mix.

Paul


Sabu

11-Apr-2011
4:14:45 PM

gfdonc

11-Apr-2011
4:48:32 PM

On 11/04/2011 PDRM wrote:
>Maybe heresy, but as the request was 'first lead' not 'first trad lead'
>I'd consider letting a beginner leader getting a couple of sport leads
>under their belt; learning the rope skills, clipping, getting some head
>space issues sorted before adding gear to the mix.

But it was "at Araps". And actually I was assuming trad lead.
The person involved has led some sport, but 2-3 years ago. To give you more background they seconded Tannin clean (and looking comfortable) the other weekend so climbs in the 10-12 grade should be ok.

Piccolo, yep, agree with the tricky belay.
D Minor haven't done for years. I recall rope drag was a pain.
Trapeze no way! That climb is intimidating at the grade, plus it's reachy.
Pedro - uh I used to use this one on the VCC courses years ago (one of my students led it) but it's a little sketchy at one place.
Other comments noted, haven't done Mesa myself and that sounds suitable.
What about something over at Faith/Hope/Charity?


ajfclark

11-Apr-2011
4:53:17 PM

If you're walking up Central Bully Right, Exploding Tomatoes (9) (to the right of Strife on the Gravy Train) is a nice little route and you can scoot up the back to check the belay if you want.

climbingjac

11-Apr-2011
5:19:56 PM

It's so long ago since some of us learned trad, it's hard to remember how petrifying it was. To quote one of my mates when he was in is beginner days....

"This is not a 9... it's more like a f ### ing 11 !"

The moral of the story: Even a difference of two grades at the low end feels astronomical to the nervous new leader.

There are 81 messages in this topic.