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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 74
Author
OT - cattle grazing in the alps
earwig
18/01/2011
11:01:26 AM
As people no doubt have heard, cattle grazing has been reintroduced in to the Alpine National Park for "scientific research". If anyone wants any info they should check out DSE's website. It includes a map of where the cattle are.

http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/DSE/nrenpr.nsf/LinkView/96607BDB8D7C34A9CA257817000F427425944F18CBF38C964A2567BD002971B9

You can go to http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2011/01/17/3114669.htm?site=goulburnmurray for an interview with Dick Williams, who did any earlier study after the 2003 fires, for some further info.


evanbb
18/01/2011
11:26:56 AM
Harumph.


I don't care much whether they graze there or not; my problem is that they're still calling it a NP and allowing grazing. Why denegrate the conservation status of NPs by introducing livestock, rather than just doing what they have actually done and make it a managed forest or what ever the local equivalent. It is not a NP any more.
kieranl
18/01/2011
11:33:14 AM
Evan, you obviously don't understand the context.
This is purely a political decision to appease a few mates in the National Party, flying in the face of the existing scientific evidence..
The campaign that the mountain cattlemen have run has been quite disgraceful, essentially denying the existing science and slandering the scientists.
The only hope is that the Federal government will put a stop to this program as they have jurisdiction over National Heritage areas.
bones
18/01/2011
11:35:36 AM
I think it's crap that they're reintroducing cattle, but I feel a bit better after reading the link as it's less impact than I had thought when I read about it in theage
kieranl
18/01/2011
11:41:37 AM
On 18/01/2011 bones wrote:
>I think it's crap that they're reintroducing cattle, but I feel a bit better
>after reading the link as it's less impact than I had thought when I read
>about it in theage
This is just the stalking-horse. The mountain cattlemen's aim is to get them back into the whole park. They reject the existing science, do you think they will accept the results of this "trial"?

evanbb
18/01/2011
11:43:52 AM
On 18/01/2011 kieranl wrote:
>Evan, you obviously don't understand the context.
>This is purely a political decision to appease a few mates in the National
>Party, flying in the face of the existing scientific evidence..
>The campaign that the mountain cattlemen have run has been quite disgraceful,
>essentially denying the existing science and slandering the scientists.
>The only hope is that the Federal government will put a stop to this program
>as they have jurisdiction over National Heritage areas.

Oh Kieran, I agree with everything you say, and yes, that shits me. But, beyond that is the political weakness of trying to pull the wool over our collective eyes by calling it 'research', allowing cattle in the NP, and yet still having the hide to call it a NP, even though this would not be allowed in any other park in the country.

I've heard the Nationals described as 'The party of pork-barrelling, the mob behind the Regional Partnerships rorts, a pack of hicks who are less a party than an elected conspiracy to defraud the Commonwealth, probably canít understand the notion of a scheme that isnít designed to deliver cash to their mates.'

And I tend to agree.
bones
18/01/2011
11:52:37 AM
On 18/01/2011 kieranl wrote:
>On 18/01/2011 bones wrote:
>>I think it's crap that they're reintroducing cattle, but I feel a bit
>better
>>after reading the link as it's less impact than I had thought when I
>read
>>about it in theage
>This is just the stalking-horse. The mountain cattlemen's aim is to get
>them back into the whole park. They reject the existing science, do you
>think they will accept the results of this "trial"?

True, it's definately a bad start.
I don't know much about bushfires, but I wouldn't have thought cattle would eat most fuel types
BA
18/01/2011
12:03:43 PM
One of the things that intrigues me about this "scientific" experiment is how are they going to measure the effects of the fires. Are they going to wait until nature decides to let off a few lightening strikes and rush out with their equipment and measure the intensity of the fire, all relevant weather information and fuel load? Will they wait for lightening strikes or will they rely on arson? How are they going to compare a fire that burns through a "fuel reduced" cattle-grazed area and a non cattle-grazed area. Will they now have to burn parts of the parks to make a comparison and see if the cattle are having an impact. If they resort to "managed" burns, then the introduction of cattle will inevitably lead to an increase in the number of fires in the high country.

So, a special thank you to all those who voted for the coalition.
Paul
18/01/2011
12:40:24 PM
The government made this decision about scientifie reaserch very quietly and seemed to reliece it to the media while everyone else was focused on floods.
kieranl
18/01/2011
1:07:23 PM
On 18/01/2011 Paul wrote:
>The government made this decision about scientifie reaserch very quietly
>and seemed to reliece it to the media while everyone else was focused on
>floods.
It's the new "open" government. Did anyone see what the process was for selecting whose cattle get to participate? Was there a tender?

billk
18/01/2011
1:14:39 PM
On 18/01/2011 kieranl wrote:
>>The only hope is that the Federal government will put a stop to this program
>as they have jurisdiction over National Heritage areas.

I wonder if the Victorian government is hoping for Federal intervention so they can have a fight and look tough? Or (better for people like us) they are hoping the Federal government will push the cattlemen out of the national park so they can say: "Sorry guys, we did our best to pay you back but those bastards in Canberra ruined it all."

The Victorian government has also just extended the duck shooting season to 12 weeks. Lotsa favours returned for the non-caffee latte sipping segments of the electorate.

Before the election some animal welfare groups were very confident Ted was going to take action on puppy farms and some other domestic animal welfare issues. I expect they are about to be disappointed on that front, bacause I think Ted would have an ideological objection to shutting down very profitable businesses.
lacto
18/01/2011
1:19:11 PM
On 18/01/2011 Paul wrote:
>The government made this decision about scientifie reaserch very quietly
>and seemed to reliece it to the media while everyone else was focused on
>floods.

the thing that really gets me is that commercial agistment on "prime Pastures " which is what the cattle men call it is in excess of $1.00 a day .. animals should be putting on 1kg a day at an end value of $1.50 to $2.20 per kg live weight . So charge a commercial rate for this agistment and open it up to tender from all and sundry rather rather give to a few select people who have had good value for next to no cost . Of course they dont want to give this up ! the portion of victorias beef herd is absolutely minimal

billk
18/01/2011
1:21:15 PM
On 18/01/2011 BA wrote:
>>So, a special thank you to all those who voted for the coalition.

Not me but when Elizabeth Miller (now Lib member for Bentleigh) came to our front door she had visions of my dog eating her!



Which would have at least taken things to a byelection.

tnd
18/01/2011
1:54:51 PM
On 18/01/2011 earwig wrote:
>As people no doubt have heard, cattle grazing has been reintroduced in
>to the Alpine National Park for "scientific research"...

This sounds as valid as the scientific research the Japanese do on whales.

billk
18/01/2011
2:22:55 PM
Alpine cattle grazing 'justified'

January 18, 2011

ENVIRONMENT Minister Ryan Smith has defended the return of cattle grazing to the Alpine National Park, saying further investigation was justified into whether it could help mitigate fire in some areas.

Grazing was banned from the park in 2005 after a parliamentary taskforce received scientific advice that cattle damaged the alpine environment. But Mr Smith said the secretary of the Department of the Sustainability and Environment, Greg Wilson, had agreed that there was not yet enough evidence to determine whether cattle could help limit bushfire risk in parts of the heritage-listed park, other than the Bogong High Plains.

The Coalition last week allowed about 400 cattle to be introduced at six sites, making up less than 4 per cent of the park, under the banner of scientific research - a step it says fulfils a promise to restore grazing.

Mr Smith said a decision on whether grazing would be expanded would be informed by the advice of Sydney University agriculture dean Professor Mark Adams, who is overseeing the research.

ADAM MORTON

- The Age
kieranl
18/01/2011
2:30:16 PM
A link to some information from the VNPA on the science
http://vnpa.org.au/page/publications/reports/science,-credibility,-and-alpine-grazing

hangdog
18/01/2011
2:46:36 PM
Why dont you wait for the study to be completed and then make a judgement on the validity of it. The study should support the claims you are making.
kieranl
18/01/2011
2:59:35 PM
On 18/01/2011 hangdog wrote:
>Why dont you wait for the study to be completed and then make a judgement
>on the validity of it. The study should support the claims you are making.

There's close to 70 years of science documenting the damage done by grazing cattle to the alpine environment.
Why should a National Park be compromised for 5 years because one lobby group doesn't like the science? Surely the onus is the other way around : they should get some credible science to provide the basis before proceeding to field trials

evanbb
18/01/2011
3:03:20 PM
On 18/01/2011 hangdog wrote:
>Why dont you wait for the study to be completed and then make a judgement
>on the validity of it. The study should support the claims you are making.

Apparently the studies have been done and the cattlemen didn't like the result.

billk
18/01/2011
3:37:46 PM
On 18/01/2011 bones wrote:
>True, it's definately a bad start.
>I don't know much about bushfires, but I wouldn't have thought cattle
>would eat most fuel types

Previous research showed that the cattle don't graze on the plants that make up most of the fuel load.

For all the "Alpine Grazing Stops Blazing" car stickers you see, I'm sure its just an ad hoc argument. The cattlemen mostly want to make a buck and the public that support them want to feel like defenders of a tradition.

The Mountain Cattlemen's Association has been good at portraying an image of themselves as carrying on the traditions we want to stay connected to. I'm not immune from the attraction of that. However, I don't see that those traditions get wiped out if the cattlemen don't get virtually free agistment in national parks, whereas I do see that lots of hoofed animals in national parks alter the ecosystems. And I think we beardy and drreadlocked types also have a right to our quiet enjoyment of some relatively pristine alpine ecosystems.

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There are 74 messages in this topic.

 

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