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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Poll Option Votes Graph
I tie both ends together in a single knot, always 3
4% 
I tie a separate knot in each, always 22
31% 
I tie both ends together, only on multiple raps 6
8% 
I tie a separate knot, only on multiple raps 28
39% 
I tie myself into the end of the rope 0
 
I don't knot the ropes 12
17% 

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 53
Author
How do you knot the end of a rope on abseil?
gfdonc
26/10/2010
12:21:57 PM
Some other thread is talking about how to knot the top end of a rope. But how do people knot the bottom of a rope, and what do you think are the advantages/disadvantages of each?


Superstu
26/10/2010
12:28:20 PM
Seperate knot in each, always. I reckon forgetting to untie the end knot before pulling the ropes down equals minor epic, rapping off the end of the rope because you misjudged the distance to rap equals end of climbing career. And it happens, I have seen it (he survived, only a short fall & tumble thankfully)
gfdonc
26/10/2010
12:32:20 PM
Tying both ends together does save you if you forget to untie before starting to pull, however sometimes this contributes to tangles.
hargs
26/10/2010
12:32:22 PM
Separate knot in each, only if I can't see the ropes on the ground for a single pitch. Always at the top of multiples.
Wendy
26/10/2010
12:39:52 PM
Someone run me by the advantage of tying knots in the end if it's a single pitch abseil that you know is shorter than your available rap rope?

I mostly don't tie knots, not because I might forget to untie it to pull (I do check the end of the rope as it leaves my reach) but because knots getting stuck out of reach are very very tedious and potentially rope losing. eg, you tie knots in the end of your ropes and lob them off some multipitch abseil, the wind catches them, drags them miles to the side and you can't pull them back because the knot is caught somewhere. Tying the 2 together seems to add the bonus possibility of hooking the ropes around something. I should hope that I am capable of watching the end of the rope to ensure I don't rap off it and have a prussic in case I somehow loose control of the rope so I won't go whipping off the end if I let go either. About the only time I would is if the next anchor was very closer to the rope length and even then, unless the throw line was really clear, I'd prbably stop and pull the ropes up to knot them once closer to the ends. I do rap down with the ends tied to me once in a while when it seems the best option, but you have to pretty much have the rope coiled with you and let it out as you go because you have this lovely loop to get caught around things otherwise and it's all a bit tedious.

Snappy
26/10/2010
1:04:01 PM
On 26/10/2010 Wendy wrote:
>Someone run me by the advantage of tying knots in the end if it's a single
>pitch abseil that you know is shorter than your available rap rope?
>

If you can't see the ground for some reason, one end of the rope doesn't land on the ground and is still hanging several metres in the air. Abseil down and off one end.

Half way markers or good communication with someone on the ground would avoid this scenario.

I always tie knots even if I don't need to, because I think it's a good habbit to have and I don't want to be 300m up and forget to tie them....
mikllaw
Online Now
26/10/2010
1:48:05 PM
I've had overhands come undone sometimes so i always do a double overhand ./ barrell knot.
If it's windy I tie both together and add gear to the bottom to heklp it 'sink'.

On multipitch raps I clip the end I'm not pulling immediately into the belay and yell 'abseil clear', then undo the knot in the end i'm pulling and thread the belay, and re-tie the knot, then start pulling it down. All very efficient, except normally the other end goes from 50m above to 50 m below and you don't get a knot in that end. If it looks dodgy I'll rap to within 10m of the end and put in a knot.

gordoste
26/10/2010
2:15:48 PM
On 26/10/2010 mikllaw wrote:
>On multipitch raps I clip the end I'm not pulling immediately into the
>belay and yell 'abseil clear', then undo the knot in the end i'm pulling
>and thread the belay, and re-tie the knot, then start pulling it down.
>All very efficient, except normally the other end goes from 50m above to
>50 m below and you don't get a knot in that end. If it looks dodgy I'll
>rap to within 10m of the end and put in a knot.

Yes this is a great timesaving technique.
Fish Boy
26/10/2010
3:05:57 PM
Never tie knots. Often use gri gri and look where I am going...

Even with 50 kilos of stuff in haul bag hanging off my belay loop I don't tie knots...

Wimps.

dave h.
26/10/2010
3:08:17 PM
Do you rap with your haul bag hanging from your harness?

I would've thought a better way would be to extend your belay device, and have your haul-bag hanging from that. My thinking is that it'd allow you to move around a bit more, plus you'd have less of the '50 kgs hanging off you' harness pain.
Fish Boy
26/10/2010
3:30:28 PM
I have 2 belay loops, the bag on one and the belay on the other. Tried it the other way and never thought much of it...? Might try again...
J.C.
26/10/2010
3:41:54 PM
On 26/10/2010 dave h. wrote:
>Do you rap with your haul bag hanging from your harness?
>
>I would've thought a better way would be to extend your belay device,
>and have your haul-bag hanging from that. My thinking is that it'd allow
>you to move around a bit more, plus you'd have less of the '50 kgs hanging
>off you' harness pain.

thats how i do it (extend the belay device etc) and cant imagine doing it any other way.. i can see plenty of disadvantages and no advantages whatsoever to having a pig hanging from your belay loop!
martym
26/10/2010
3:43:50 PM
I call buwwwwsheet on these stats!
In 10 years I've only seen maybe 2people tie knots in the end, and never seen anyone tie them together. Those two people and I also had a debate on the merits of tying knots vs using a prussick.

The amount of times I've had to pull a rope out of a tree branch or untangle a mess that's landed on a ledge - no way I'd tie them together!

On 26/10/2010 Wendy wrote:
>I mostly don't tie knots, not because I might forget to untie it to pull
>(I do check the end of the rope as it leaves my reach) but because knots
>getting stuck out of reach are very very tedious and potentially rope losing.
> eg, you tie knots in the end of your ropes and lob them off some multipitch
>abseil, the wind catches them, drags them miles to the side and you can't
>pull them back because the knot is caught somewhere. Tying the 2 together
>seems to add the bonus possibility of hooking the ropes around something.

Or the way Wendy put it... totally agree.

Sabu
Online Now
26/10/2010
3:53:38 PM
I usually forgo tying knots when i know the abseil height and its a single pitch.
Hugh
26/10/2010
4:03:26 PM
In reference to not tying knots on single pitch...

I do, and perhaps its just paranoia, but imagine, from some reason, one side ran faster then the other...? You could potentially absail off the end....

As for knots getting stuck when pulling. It would appear that is just complacency and complacency gets people killed right...?
martym
26/10/2010
4:11:11 PM
On 26/10/2010 Hugh wrote:
>one side ran faster then the other...? You could potentially absail off th
That's a LOT of rope to not notice

>As for knots getting stuck when pulling. It would appear that is just
>complacency and complacency gets people killed right...?
More likely to get you killed is standing precariously on a small ledge hauling your rope up out of some bush 100m off the deck with no hand on your belay.

Use a prussik if you're paranoid

jkane
26/10/2010
4:16:36 PM
On 26/10/2010 Hugh wrote:
>In reference to not tying knots on single pitch...
>
>I do, and perhaps its just paranoia, but imagine, from some reason, one
>side ran faster then the other...? You could potentially absail off the
>end....
>
Someone once told me that this happened to them. He was hanging around doing some photography - jiggling around going up and down a bit and getting into position I think. One end moved relative to the other and went through the belay device. He was just starting to climb again after recovery from fractured vertebrae when I met him.
kieranl
26/10/2010
4:31:59 PM
It worries me when people ridicule safety techniques such as tying knots in the end of ropes, using prussiks etc. Some very experienced climbers have died by going off the end of ropes in otherwise innocous circumstances.
On multiple abseils or if uncertain of the length, I tie a figure-eight-on-the-bight in each end. They're big enough to jam in any abseil device even with a heavy pack. I don't tie the ropes together because they kink shockingly. If the wind is really strong I will pile the ropes into a pack or lap it and abseil paying out as I go.
I haven't generally used a backup prussick in the past but am trying to add that to my system after a recent incident.
By all means, use as many or few safety techniques as you wish but please don't ridicule their use.
patto
26/10/2010
5:09:14 PM
On 26/10/2010 kieranl wrote:
>It worries me when people ridicule safety techniques such as tying knots
>in the end of ropes, using prussiks etc. Some very experienced climbers
>have died by going off the end of ropes in otherwise innocous circumstances.
>On multiple abseils or if uncertain of the length, I tie a figure-eight-on-the-bight
>in each end. They're big enough to jam in any abseil device even with a
>heavy pack. I don't tie the ropes together because they kink shockingly.
>If the wind is really strong I will pile the ropes into a pack or lap it
>and abseil paying out as I go.
>I haven't generally used a backup prussick in the past but am trying to
>add that to my system after a recent incident.
>By all means, use as many or few safety techniques as you wish but please
>don't ridicule their use.

There are lots of very good reasons not to use prussiks. This is particularly the case when climbing with inexperienced climbers. Too many times I see prussiks over used when a bottom belay would suffice. Prusiks have gotten people killed before.
f_ladou
26/10/2010
5:15:32 PM
Reading between the lines, it seems that some people abseil down multipitch routes without prusik? Now, that in my list of preconditions for a Darwin Award ranks pretty high. Higher than tying knots.

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 53
There are 53 messages in this topic.

 

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