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34?


runnit

31-May-2004
8:28:38 PM

On 28/05/2004 shaggy wrote:
>Climing is supposed to be an enjoyable past time, we dont need people dieing around
>the place, just to maintain a level of boldness.
>
>Call me a pussy, call me what ever, but it isn't necisary for people to
>die climbing.

But would you agree with the idea that one of the appealing things about climbing is that when you're on the pointy end of the rope, you are taking total responsibility for your life and it's a pleasant (and much needed if you ask me) relief from a society that's getting more and more cotton-wool-wrapped, litigative and buck-passing? It's what makes topping out so rewarding.

I definitely agree that uneccessary injuries/fatalities in the name of 'look at me, i did a bold climb' are not what climbing is about becuase the bad publicity usually results in increased regulation or outright prohibition and no one would ever wish for someone to frap in, but could that be avoided by by a means other than 'unneccessary bolting'? (sorry, I can't think of a better term, but you get my intent yeah?)

If an FA did the climb solo or in a really bold way, then they've shown that it is humanly possible and the challenge is there to repeat it in the same style if you are sure that you can climb at the appropriate level. I generally disagree with taking the risk out of a climb just because someone might get in over their head because they want to show off. If you're doing it because you've considered the risks and believe that you're capable of dealing with them in order to gain the personal satisfaction, then it's your life and your right to risk it.

If so much of climbing ethics and style has been passed down verbally and as a culture, maybe an attitude that discourages ego-driven risk taking could be passed down as well. Another option could simply be a phrase in the guide book that says poorly protected/run out/risk of ground fall etc, that's definitely enough to make me stop and think if I really want to do that climb.

Of course this is all just my ramblings while I'm putting off work so feel free to hook into it with what you think.


shaggy

31-May-2004
11:09:58 PM

On 31/05/2004 BJ2 wrote:
>If an FA did the climb solo or in a really bold way, then they've shown that it is >humanly possible and the challenge is there to repeat it in the same style if you are >sure that you can climb at the appropriate level.

I'm pretty much going to leave this topic alone, as the two sides of this topic are never going to agree but...

If people wish to cllimb a climb in the same style that it was put up, they're more than welcome not to clip the bolts or use the pro. Take 'Auto da Fe' or 'Take Five' as an example, How many people have done these climbs in the same style as that of the FA. I've climbed them both, both times placing gear. I am quite confident at leading these climbs at that grade, but just because I don't feel like soloing these climbs like the FA, does that make me a pussy?????? Have I done these climbs in a less than Traditional method????? Theres an expression that I can use but I dont want this post edited and removed. If you want to climb bold, fine, dont clip the pegs on Kachoong, dont clip the bolts on Debutants, fine, infact solo Punks, I dont care, but When it's needed, I'm happy to clip that bolt.
I am not a sports climber, in fact I have only done exactly 4 sports routes in my life.
Anyway, there it is, my $2.50 worth (inflation, 5c ins't worth much anymore).


hex-TROLL

30-Jun-2004
7:22:04 PM

On 27/05/2004 Jark [chirac ?]wrote:
>Chris, I can't say for sure but that's where my money would be going!
>
>Thanks for the congrats dude, we're getting excited!

So you should be ! You made a good investment !! ...


IdratherbeclimbingM9

1-Jul-2004
12:29:40 PM

On 30/06/2004 hex-TROLL wrote:
>On 27/05/2004 Jark [chirac ?]wrote:
>>Chris, I can't say for sure but that's where my money would be going!
(On someone else being Hex-Troll)
> So you should be ! You made a good investment !! ...

I am on to you Hex. Time to borrow the smoke and mirrors from BA, or get a handfull of 'foof powder' to throw on the cauldron flames ...

>Luv, HEX ( Tho I'm not so sure about A5--- there's defiantly some ' chemistry ' there... )
'Defiantly' is nmonteiths classic word contribution to the Forum.
Chemistry? You are probably right, inasmuch as one has to be about as bent as a used copperhead (or a cracked pin?), to be addicted to the thin end of the spectrum ...

PS welcome back. I can handle having a couple of (knowledgable) alter egos on the site, based on the past games which were fun.

>ya know wha' I mean ?...
Yep, gotcha, nudge wink.


HEX

25-Aug-2004
6:51:32 PM

On 27/05/2004 chris wrote:

>Unfortunately I have issues...
>Anyway, lucky Ben has somebody so persuasive and smooth talking to take
>his side in the argument, otherwise all those Victorian pussies might start
>getting big heads or somethin'.

>Chris C.
-------------------
Bump...

Onsight

27-Aug-2004
11:06:10 PM

Threads that go >Bump... in the night...

You have an acute sense it irony Hex - or should I say "Ben"? It surprises me, but Jark seems to be saying you're Ben, therefore it must be right.

Congratulations Chris, as per your request, "34?" is back in the charts again.

Hope you don't mind if I borrow one of yours Hex:
On 14/03/2004 hex-TROLL wrote:
>OMMMMMMMMMMMM---OMMMMMMMMMMMM---OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
>' Stop , look , and listen , baby-----that's my philosophy'
>Luv , HEX (watching the 'petri-dish' from the Mountain-Top )

Yep, that's irony indeed!!!


mousey

27-Aug-2004
11:21:31 PM

it does seem like that doesnt it, and id think jarks would know...unless of course he's playin us as well? ah who cares its funny anyway. and if hex really is ben then we at least know that ben's literary incompetencies were a sham. now that ive figured out what something might be even though something might not affect me (yo that rhymes brudda) i think ill go back to wishing i was somewhere other than n front of a computer

Onsight

27-Aug-2004
11:32:33 PM

It certainly is funny. My point though is to think for yourself - and be careful not to presume other people will always have all the answers.

Sorry if this is a bit cyptic, it kinda also relates to a post that was made then withdrawn the other night. Actually it's a bit of a double - or triple - irony.

Onsight

27-Aug-2004
11:56:51 PM

On 5/04/2004 Mighty Mouse wrote:
>your comments about subsequent ascentsionists both intrigues and disturbs
>me....these other climbers (presumably Lee, Garth and Zac), have any of
>them made a 'valid' ascent using the other hold before it was removed?

Sorry I never got to answer this question of yours from before. It came up just before I headed overseas and I didn't have time to get into it further then. The answer is actually Lee, Garth and Steve McClure.


mousey

28-Aug-2004
12:08:41 AM

ok cool. have they expressed any kindof views on what happened afterwards?

Onsight

28-Aug-2004
12:25:01 AM

Leading up to this Garth was out of action for eight months recovering from a broken wrist (saying “he’d been trying it for years” would be quite an exaggeration). He then tried the route one day and found that using the hold in question he could do the crux move virtually statically, much easier than before he broke his wrist (this is confirmed by his belayer), and he is absolutely adamant that it was 33 - not 34 - this way. Before he got to try it again the hold was "removed". You cold say he was "not impressed" but I can't really speak for him precisely.

Onsight

28-Aug-2004
12:28:26 AM

Steve had this to say (this is extracted from something he wrote about his trip):

"Sunday
The Australian ethics seem to be pretty good. Regarding bolting, traditional lines are left as such, unprotectable lines are bolted, and there is often a mix of the two which works well. As for chipping, this is a definite no go, and many routes that were originally chipped have had the offending holds filled in and the route re-ascended and re-credited.
It was with this knowledge that I went on ‘Mechanical Animals’, Australia’s first route to be graded 34. After the first ascent, probably Australia’s best sport climber, Garth Miller zoomed in for a second ascent and found a small edge useful to shorter climbers. However, before he could complete it, the first ascentionist returned to bash off the edge, claiming he didn’t use it and so was not part of the route. Clearly this has caused a stir with some people dismissing the ascent stating that it has not been climbed in its current state! Anyway It pissed me off because I would have definitely climbed it in a day had the edge been there. As it was I had my fingers on the edge at the end of the hard climbing twice but just couldn’t quite hold it. The debate goes on!"

Onsight

28-Aug-2004
12:29:59 AM


mousey

28-Aug-2004
12:39:00 AM

is the hold in question that left hand in the 2nd shot?

Onsight

28-Aug-2004
12:44:59 AM

No, it is the one just below his left hand in the first shot.

The hold he has with the left hand in second shot is the hold you are going for at the end of the crux, if he'd held that then it was relatively easy to the top (he said).

BTW, the photos are taken on linkage from the ground, first and third redpoint atempts, after 10 minutes dogging (1.5 hrs trying it all up).

Later Josh!


mousey

28-Aug-2004
12:51:01 AM

ok. i can definately see now what happened...but the harder bit for short people, i assume that would be the moves prior to the pic, not the throw??


HEX

28-Aug-2004
9:59:20 AM

On 27/08/2004 Onsight wrote:

>Sorry if this is a bit cyptic, it kinda also relates to a post that was
>made then withdrawn the other night. Actually it's a bit of a double -
>or triple - irony.

Sleep easy, bro --- HEX=HEX

I noticed Chris having a go ' the other night ' , so I decided to ride-shotgun for you ...

Luv HEX ( still cryptic ? , Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...)

kenny

30-Aug-2004
1:17:37 PM

I know Benjamin well and ive spoken to him on this subject a couple of times and from what i gathered from our conversation he feels pretty repentant of tapping the hold off and of all the negative attension it has received and has caused him to withdraw into himself and suffer mild depression as a result.
Instead of guessing why he did it,assuming or just blindly beliving some self-professed authority with a brown nose and a camera maybe you could have asked the man himself(what a thought!).
At the end of the day whats done is done, whether right or wrong its should be seen as water under the bridge,its caused enough damage.After all it contributes nicly to Australias colourful climbing history.

I know for certain that Ben really isnt a heartless chipping monster and that the grade was far from his mind when he commited "the crime" and that he couldnt give two fifths of f--- all if it got downgraded to
22,so go ahead it seems it would be quite the victory for you and undoubtedly a major highlight in your otherwise mawkish and computer controlled lives.

peace out,Kenith Rogers.
PS.keep wasting you life in front of a screen.


Mike

30-Aug-2004
3:37:44 PM

Deleted a bunch of personal attacks and rubbish posts. Please use email or better yet, some manners.


HEX

30-Aug-2004
3:42:57 PM

Well moderated !

Luv HEX

----------------------------
Settle-down, bourge --- we like to keep things nice 'n' cossey...

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