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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

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Author
OT: Skeptics vs Alarmist Cage Match unSpectacular!

masterofrup
30-Nov-2009
10:21:33 AM
I suspect I am not alone in being extremely grateful to evanbb for putting so much effort into this thread despite it quite severely hijacking the site. I have a strong personal and professional interest/concern in this whole issue but don't have the time or resources to become as well informed as I would like. Being given access to the mind of someone who does a good impression of having a sensible and practical depth of knowlege on the topic is of enormous value to me. So thank you very much evanbb and all who have contributed, including the doubters who have helped provoke an excellent resource.

Finally a little plug for the "rednecks". I am a broadacre farmer and represent a rural community. We are far from all climate change sceptics (you could be forgiven for thinking this based on the press we get.) and funnily enough as well as appearing to have a higher percentage of sceptics in our midst than average I suspect we also have a higher percentage of those who are well informed. I think that both of these are due to a closer relationship than your average joe to the concept of climate in our everyday lives. (When you are told that the drought you are suffering is due to climate change and have family records of a similar dry spell in the not too distant past you are likely to be cynical.) Unfortunately the well informed ones don't seem to have any voice in the National party. I have higher hopes for the leadership coming from the NFF and VFF, (National and Victorian Farmers Federation.) who may not have been supportive of the Govt CPRS but are talking up climate change as a real problem. I am not sure where I personally sit on the CPRS but not supporting it and being very concerned about climate change are certainly not mutually exclusive.
Thats all for my rant.

Thanks again and keep fighting the good fight.
Ray

evanbb
30-Nov-2009
6:14:44 PM
On 30/11/2009 masterofrup wrote:
>I suspect I am not alone...

Thanks for the compliments. It's mostly the Australian taxpayer you have to thank, I had a lot of free time for a while there and it was a good opportunity to get up to speed.

Here's a pretty good article on the CRU emails.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/nov/25/monbiot-climate-leak-crisis-response

Dave C
30-Nov-2009
6:39:43 PM
Here's one for all those who actually think the e-mail leak from the CRU is of any real importance:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/environment/climate-change-emails-stop-glaciers-from-melting-200911252254/


billk
1-Dec-2009
12:27:48 PM
Here's one for anyone else who is worried about Nick Minchin:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/nick-minchin-was-a-sceptic-on-tobacco/story-e6frgczf-1225805535960

Fruitcakes in expensive tailored suits are the ones to be the most worried about.
spicelab
1-Dec-2009
2:24:45 PM
This is an appalling ad hominem attack! I'm sure he was genuinely concerned that the medical scientists and "experts" hadn't taken into account sunspot cycles, that people have always died, and that the lung cancer rate may well have been much higher in the past (we just couldn't diagnose it at the time). A very cool-headed, considered position.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
Online Now
1-Dec-2009
4:48:13 PM
Renewable energy sources keep advancing…

Osmotic power plant.
http://www.statkraft.com/presscentre/news/statkraft-renewables-seminar-kicks-off.aspx


'Oyster' opens ~ the world's largest working hydro-electric wave energy device.
http://european-waternews.com/news/id866-Scotlands_First_Minister_Launches_Wave_Energy_Device.html
Wendy
13-Dec-2009
1:41:57 PM
Just so Hero's topic doesn't repeat the 745 posts here, I'll bring it back from the dead again for those like Brazened who managed to miss out on all the fun and submarines. Besides, it should be on fire this week whilst everyone's looking to what will come out of Copenhagen. Maybe Tony's there attending the concurrent skeptics conference.

I noticed the other day that 2009 is coming in at the 5th hottest year on record, the 3rd hottest for Australia. And that the last decade is the hottest one on record, which just to make that screamingly clear, means that it was hotter than the 1990s, which were hotter than the 80s, which were hotter than the 70s. Perhaps someone can explain to me how this all occurred in a period of "cooling"?

evanbb
13-Dec-2009
2:21:40 PM
On 13/12/2009 Wendy wrote:
>Maybe Tony's there attending the concurrent skeptics conference.


Here's Ian Plimer, talking lots of good sense about climate change. I'd never paid any attention to Plimer, but looked into his book the other day. He's a shyster of the highest order. The Sceptics parallel conference looks like a blast.


evanbb
13-Dec-2009
2:32:04 PM
This will get this thread back on track. A pic of some unshaved hippy meeting with the minister for Resources, Energy and Tourism.


wallwombat
13-Dec-2009
2:48:00 PM
That photo is gold!

evanbb
14-Dec-2009
6:58:41 AM
On 13/12/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>That photo is gold!

Uh hu. That's at our Christmas party; Martin Ferguson is our Department boss. He was a pretty good sport about it all too. I was halfway, more than probably, to roaring by that stage, when someone told me the Minister was here. So, I posed with him for a photo. We had a chat. Can't remember what about.
climberman
14-Dec-2009
8:12:35 AM
On 13/12/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>That photo is gold!

rolled gold at that ! Nice one evanb.

evanbb
14-Dec-2009
9:41:59 AM
Here's something interesting:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/03/31/Intro.timeline/index.html

A timeline of the development of the Greenhouse theory.

billk
14-Dec-2009
3:47:56 PM
On 13/12/2009 evanbb wrote:
>On 13/12/2009 Wendy wrote:
>>Maybe Tony's there attending the concurrent skeptics conference.
>
>
>Here's Ian Plimer,
>talking lots of good sense about climate change. I'd never paid any attention
>to Plimer, but looked into his book the other day. He's a shyster of the
>highest order. The Sceptics parallel conference looks like a blast.
>

There have been a few competent scientists from other fields (geology, ecology etc) who had tasted stardom previously and must have decided that that getting on the climate change skeptics bandwagon was a good way to have some more.

David Bellamy is another one of 'em. Met him on the Franklin blockade quite a few years ago now. He was one of my heroes back then. Not quite so keen on him now.

evanbb
14-Dec-2009
4:24:49 PM
On 14/12/2009 billk wrote:
>Met him on the Franklin blockade


Well, the Franklin Blockade eh? That's a serious name to contend with on your Left Wing Resume. I've got no such cred. Armchair leftism all the way for me.

billk
14-Dec-2009
4:32:40 PM
I'm sure Swine of the Times was there too. ; )

Earlier on in that battle, Harry Butler's reputation bit the dust, while those of people like Bob Brown, David Bellamy and Peter Garrett were steadily building.

For David Bellamy it would have been a smarter move to stay in the mainstream and be a fading star, because his dalliances with the climate change skeptics will probably be what he is most remembered for.

evanbb
15-Dec-2009
7:59:18 AM
Here's some words as my summing up of this whole argument
http://evcricket.wordpress.com/2009/12/14/the-climate-change-argument/

It's the same ethical argument that's been fought on battlegrounds all over the world; ozone gases, land clearing, coastal development etc.

billk
16-Dec-2009
2:32:30 PM
On 13/12/2009 evanbb wrote:
Here's Ian Plimer
>talking lots of good sense about climate change. I'd never paid any attention
>to Plimer, but looked into his book the other day. He's a shyster of the
>highest order. The Sceptics parallel conference looks like a blast.
>

There was a debate between Ian Plimer and George Monbiot on Lateline last night. It's probably available on the website.

I have to say it - Ian Plimer is becoming a bit doddery in his dotage. He's a shadow of the science warrior who used to do battle with the creationists.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
Online Now
16-Dec-2009
2:42:16 PM
I saw that debate.
It was close to being antsy quite often, with "height of rudeness to interrupt" comments aplenty!

evanbb
16-Dec-2009
3:00:40 PM
On 16/12/2009 billk wrote:
>>There was a debate between Ian Plimer and George Monbiot on Lateline last
>night. It's probably available on the website.


Oh! They actually had it? I'm watching it now.

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