General Climbing Discussion

Author	WARNING: 169 kg breaking strength lower offs.
nmonteith 20-Jul-2011 11:02:48 AM	On 20/07/2011 harold wrote: >Just to add to the list, there are a pair on Redex at Werribee Gorge. >They look fine but probably should be change in the future. Any of these need to be replaced IMMEDIATELY. They are incredibly weak and dangerous. Just because there is two doesn't make it safe. These fail with only a few hundred kilos (not the usual 1000's that a normal biner holds).
gfdonc 20-Jul-2011 11:05:16 AM	Harold, are you sure the Redex ones are cast?
nmonteith 20-Jul-2011 11:22:17 AM	On 20/07/2011 gfdonc wrote: >Harold, are you sure the Redex ones are cast? There is a good chance they are cast. It's one of the anchors that I placed - and it seems all of them were the dodgy variety.
harold 20-Jul-2011 11:52:53 AM	I am pretty sure they are cast. They look very much like the ones in the picture.
Miguel75 20-Jul-2011 11:57:25 AM	On 20/07/2011 gfdonc wrote: >Harold, are you sure the Redex ones are cast? > If it helps I'll be able to duck out and get a few pics of the anchors on Redex on Friday. I'll then post up some high res ones here for you guys to peruse, and if they need to be replaced I'm happy to pick up some replacements.
nmonteith 20-Jul-2011 12:01:53 PM	I reckon just remove them Miguel. I'd be 99% sure they are dodgy. If you look at the first page on this topic you'll see a photo of them. The most important thing to look for is the bit that attaches to the u-bolt. If this is a fully fused ring with no signs of welding - then it is dodgy, if its a bent ring with an obvious gap then it is good. Hacksaw the bad one off or at worst remove the wire gate (a pair of pliers might help).
IdratherbeclimbingM9 20-Jul-2011 12:27:06 PM	On 19/07/2011 nmonteith wrote: >An easy way to disable these dodgy biners is to remove the wire gate itself. >You can do this easily with your fingers - just pinch the two sides and >the wire comes out of two small holes at the base of the biner. CAN SOMEONE >PLEASE DO THIS ASAP ON THIS BINER! Pinch(?), ... or, expand the base where the spring prongs are seated under wire tension? ~> either way, I reckon it is a dangerous stop-gap measure that you are advocating. I say this because I know of other locations where 'open' retainers, some with 'curly ends' and some without, that are used to lower off, ie slip the rope into the open 'hook' and keeping tension on it, abseil away! Informed people would consider this act to be dangerous, and they would be right!, ... but uninformed users may simply consider it to be normal practise at said location. I have seen too many silly things happen over the years, to not consider this a real possibility of happening. I advocate that if anyone is going to attend site to disable dangerous gear, then they do a complete job of it, instead of a half measure.
gfdonc 20-Jul-2011 12:30:23 PM	Neil, were the ones at the top of Holiday Sidewinder yours as well? Have they been replaced?
Miguel75 20-Jul-2011 12:30:25 PM	Will do Neil. What would be the best replacements? Another set of captive wiregates (should these be u-shackled on) or a set of those nifty SS twisted shackles?
nmonteith 20-Jul-2011 12:44:18 PM	On 20/07/2011 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote: >Pinch(?), ... or, expand the base where the spring prongs are seated under >wire tension? >~> either way, I reckon it is a dangerous stop-gap measure that >you are advocating. >I say this because I know of other locations where 'open' retainers, some >with 'curly ends' and some without, that are used to lower off, ie slip >the rope into the open 'hook' and keeping tension on it, abseil away! >Informed people would consider this act to be dangerous, and they would >be right!, ... but uninformed users may simply consider it to be normal >practise at said location. >I have seen too many silly things happen over the years, to not consider >this a real possibility of happening. > >I advocate that if anyone is going to attend site to disable dangerous >gear, then they do a complete job of it, instead of a half measure. I should have said, remove the wire gate and ADD A NEW 'BINER to the ubolt as a replacement. I agree that dodgy cold shut lower-offs used to be common in the USA and someone could get confused. Leave a replacement biner and they will use that instead.
rodw 20-Jul-2011 12:50:44 PM	If it has ubolt lower offs...why does it really need a biner anyway?
nmonteith 20-Jul-2011 12:51:42 PM	On 20/07/2011 Miguel75 wrote: >Will do Neil. What would be the best replacements? Another set of captive >wiregates (should these be u-shackled on) or a set of those nifty SS twisted >shackles? The best permanent replacement is one of these. The problem is finding any. You would need to buy a mallion as well to attach it to the u-bolt. The other solution is just add a few normal biners.
nmonteith 20-Jul-2011 12:53:32 PM	On 20/07/2011 rodw wrote: >If it has ubolt lower offs...why does it really need a biner anyway? It's likely the two U-bolts were installed horizontally so the wiregate clip and go was orientated correctly. That's the way I installed a lot of these dastardly anchors.
nmonteith 20-Jul-2011 12:54:47 PM	Another thought is just to add one big mallion to each u-bolt. That would do the job and be orientated the right way.
Miguel75 20-Jul-2011 1:45:41 PM	On 20/07/2011 gfdonc wrote: >Neil, were the ones at the top of Holiday Sidewinder yours as well? Have >they been replaced? > I'm happy to replace the anchors on Holiday sidewinder as well. I'll contact Steve and order some of the captive wiregates he's kindly offered.
harold 20-Jul-2011 1:54:50 PM	As far as I know the one anchor services Nero, Redex and Holiday Sidewinder.
nmonteith 20-Jul-2011 2:05:12 PM	On 20/07/2011 harold wrote: >As far as I know the one anchor services Nero, Redex and Holiday Sidewinder. Yep.
harold 20-Jul-2011 2:09:57 PM	And thanks heaps for volunteering Mike.
Miguel75 20-Jul-2011 2:15:33 PM	On 20/07/2011 harold wrote: >>As far as I know the one anchor services Nero, Redex and Holiday Sidewinder. My next question was going to be where the dickens the HS anchor was... I hadn't seen another anchor in that area.
Miguel75 20-Jul-2011 3:30:53 PM	I've ordered the replacement biners from Steve at climbing anchors, thanks very much for donating these, and I'll get out there once they arrive. Stand by for an update.

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