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If its A5 where are the bodies?

6-Feb-2008
4:29:20 PM

On 5/02/2008 .Macca wrote:

>As I understand it the start of the M system came from Ewbanks as well
>and was initially used to designate the number of M (mechanical) moves
>in an otherwise free climb. It was not really initially intended as a specialist
>aid grading system. If we take it literally then a multi-pitch aid climb
>could end up with a grade like M60...

Your lack of understanding is matched only by your ignorance of Australian history. Here are Ewbank's own words on 'M' grades:

"MECHANICAL GRADING: The system being used for grading mechanical climbs or pitches is similar to above ("free grades" from the original have been snipped. BA), without so many different grades. The top grades of mechanical climbing in England is classed A.4. As pegging (‘Artificial’ ~ ‘Mechanical’) is as variable in difficulty as free climbing., I have added more numbers on, with the prefix of the letter ‘M’. A climb with a mechanical pitch and free climbing would be graded say, 15. M.3.

If a climb uses only one pitch for physical aid, the climb is graded free and the piton mentioned. If a climb uses two or any number of pitons for physical aid, but they are separated by free moves then the climb is still regarded as free with aid. For example: Pitch 3. 60’. (crux). Straight up the groove, ‘4 pitons for aid’. However if two aids are used in succession with no free climbing in between., then that particular section is regarded as mechanical. A climb, may therefore be free, aided, and mechanica1, though only the two grades are used - i.e. 18 and M.5. while the aided portion of the climb is described verbally in the description.

The easiest mechanical grade (M.1.) therefore applies to such things as two firm bolts, close together, in any easy position on good rock."

'M0' was subsequently added as it was felt that a single piece could be used as either a "rest" or, in the case of a piton, could be used at full stretch as a handhold alway the way through to a foothold. So even M0 has some ambiguity built it into it.

Hope that helps.


wallwombat

6-Feb-2008
5:01:02 PM

On 6/02/2008 BA wrote:
>Your lack of understanding is matched only by your ignorance of Australian
>history.

No need to sugar coat it, Bill ; )


Macciza

6-Feb-2008
11:02:19 PM

On 6/02/2008 Macciza wrote:

>Unfortunately I may be going soft - I could not manage to try a new aid route impulsively
>in extremely misty, rainy inky blackness despite the reasonable conditions,
>just couldn't do it . . .

Redeemed myself somewhat by getting on it for a few hours today and walking out in a lightning
storm and getting back to the car completely soaked and in similar in misty raining conditions .
Interesting little hook and beak solution to gain a tiny bit of height to safely check a lose block.
A slightly cruxy steep start had the heart racing at first but unnoticed the ensuing calm engulfed me.
Not quite sure of the grade only did a short bit but with hazardous ankle/leg breaking fall potential.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

7-Feb-2008
9:57:22 AM

Sounds great! (Hmm, ... talking of sugar further above; ~> ), maybe you can bottle it (your recent experience), and it can be used as a sweetener for those unpalatable expeditions when things get really nasty!
... or you could troll the back blocks of 'toomba selling it as the elixir of life!

On another thread you wrote;
>I will get some pictures next time

~> Looking forward to seeing them, but it sounds like you need a waterproof camera that incorporates a flash?


Capt_mulch

7-Feb-2008
11:32:15 AM

> you could troll the back blocks of 'toomba selling it as the elixir of life!
I wondered what all those skinny people with ragged clothes and that far away look in their eyes were doing hanging around the Blackheath carpark on Sat. and Sun. mornings.


evanbb

7-Feb-2008
11:47:36 AM

On 7/02/2008 Capt_mulch wrote:
>I wondered what all those skinny people with ragged clothes and that far
>away look in their eyes were doing hanging around the Blackheath carpark
>on Sat. and Sun. mornings.

They're either climbers or junkies. With my mates it's a bloody fine line.


Macciza

7-Feb-2008
12:21:45 PM

On 7/02/2008 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>~> Looking forward to seeing them, . . .

Meanwhile I posted a few Pecker shots on Flickr - check them out

height="500" alt="Pecker Route" />


IdratherbeclimbingM9

7-Feb-2008
1:33:26 PM

>Pecker shots on Flickr - check them out

Good stuff.

Cap'M wrote;
>skinny people with ragged clothes and that far away look in their eyes were doing hanging around

Is this one ? (Love the look! ~ it bespeaks heaps for hard aid*)

(*last time I saw that haunted type look was Aron Ralston's self picture during his epic, as published in his book).

Heh, heh, heh.

;-)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

12-Feb-2008
12:25:01 PM

On 6/02/2008 wallwombat wrote:
>I do recall Twight using Blanchard's quote in an article in one of the
>seppo mags. That might be where Raalston saw it and hence the confusion.

You are probably right.
I have since checked the book again and Ralston specifically attributes that quote to Mark Twight.
He then follows on to say "exactly" (he agrees with), re that quote and "I had fun via the intensity of the experience".


IdratherbeclimbingM9

6-Mar-2008
5:41:51 PM

On 6/02/2008 wallwombat wrote:
>The following grades definitions are from John Long and John Middendorf
>in their excellent book ’Big Wall Climbing’.
>snip

One of those gents has also added the following clarification to that Aid Grading System.

Quote:
~ The overall grading system never tells the true story, however. The same Grade VI, 5.10, A4 rating could apply to a 8 pitch, three-day route with merely one pitch of A4, and a short, well-protected section of 5.10. Or it could represent the difficulty of a horrendous, 30 pitch, 10 day nailup, with multiple horror show A4 pitches, and bold unprotected pitches of 5.10. ~
end quote.

From the bit of homework I have had (limited) time to do following this up, I think you are right wallwombat re, (my words & paraphrasing now), there being bugger-all A6 rated climbs documented as opposed to grade 6 being multiday.

Makes me wonder why they bothered even suggesting it (A6); ... ~> as I still reckon that if sufficient hard aid ascents are made by sufficient people, then the nuances will be delineated by that process, and a closed grading system won't allow for that to be accurately documented. As an example here in Australia many have done Clouded Queen at M8 and they at least know that Copperhead Road at M9 is harder, rather than simply being a climb without bolts ...

As an aside, Boulderers have at least started with a logical numerical system by comparison!

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