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The new Blue Mountains guidebook


BigMike

11-Apr-2007
3:36:53 PM

I'm gonna buy it just to see if "Do Androids Like Duckos" at Shipley Upper has moved up from its previous grade of 20 ...


tnd

11-Apr-2007
3:37:22 PM

Hear hear Simon, Mt York alone is a vast improvement over previous guides. Kudos to Mr Short for that.

Still haven't had time to sit down and have a really good look through the book, but overall look and feel is fantastic! Great to have a bit, or in some cases a lot, more detail on routes.

Have noticed one mistake - in some of my own info! (cringe) Will not go into detail publicly...

And Neil, ignore all chalk markings on any BM crag, they are guaranteed inaccurate!


BigMike

11-Apr-2007
3:39:10 PM

On 11/04/2007 tnd wrote:

>Have noticed one mistake - in some of my own info! (cringe) Will not go
>into detail publicly...
>

That 22 given the grade of 12? Hey it's just one number...


nmonteith

11-Apr-2007
3:42:31 PM

On 11/04/2007 Onsight wrote:
>For example I noticed that Paddington went in as
>24, it’s not, that is a mistake

thank god! I did wonder about that.... many euros thuggers will curse your name for that mistake.

11-Apr-2007
3:56:07 PM

On 11/04/2007 Onsight wrote:
>For example I noticed that Paddington went in as 24, it’s not, that is a mistake

Until the typo gets fixed, the missing Paddington jug is available to anyone who wants to glue it back on to bring the grade back down towards 24 ...

mikepatt

11-Apr-2007
3:56:42 PM

Hey, I've just got to say that I used the guide on Monday and the photo topos did there job. Arriving late at Bardens (4:30pm) we raced down the gully feeling just like HB in the Buffalo movie. This was reinforced by a) the prescence or HB's van, and, not suprisingly b) the man himself, probably climbing with a Mexican bumbly blindly following chalks grades and marks.
Anyway we threw down the gear, I tossed a bandolier of draws over my shoulder (Louise Shepard style) and launched up some ring bolted line I thought may be about 16.. anyway after three moves I thought the route was familiar so I down climbed and consulted the photo topo. Wow, the bush right beside me was right there on the page and no, I hadn't climbed the route before..
Suddenly the scene changed and I was belaying, a beautiful young blonde strolled along the base of the crag and idly started chatting with some other climbers. I thought again I was either in a movie or a dream, as the sun set on the western horizon.
Wow, the power of books.


BigMike

11-Apr-2007
4:02:35 PM

On 11/04/2007 mikepatt wrote:

>Wow, the power of books.

Cheap at the price, at $54!


anthonyk

11-Apr-2007
4:08:20 PM

On 11/04/2007 tnd wrote:
>Neil/Simon, don't even bother biting, guys, n00bpwn3r is just another anonymous
>troll artist. You guys are investing the hours and dollars required to
>realise your projects. He's probably sitting with his hand down his strides
>giving it a tug.

well... i don't think the guy worded it very nicely but the point he made wasn't completely trivial. some people can refer to commercial things but others get a slap on the wrist. but neil explained the situation pretty well-

> ...for f&*ks sake get over it n00b. This is NOT a public government funded website usign your
> taxes. It is owned and operated by a private intenity who deems posts such as this acceptable
> due to SimonC generous donation of time and photos to maintain this website.

in other words

"The Chockstone forum is not a vehicle for unpaid advertising material."

should be

"The Chockstone forum is not a vehicle for unpaid advertising material, unless you're in with the people running the show."

i'm not saying its wrong or that it should be different, but thats probably more what the story is. most people wouldn't think twice about it but when you get censored for pointing out where someone can find a product they're looking for it does make you think about it. but thats all part of a privately run forum, c'est la vie.


nmonteith

11-Apr-2007
4:26:50 PM

yep, thats pretty much it Anthony. If you build a credible image with Chocktoners by volunteering and
contributing stuff for the benefit of the site (ie free photos, written reviews, crag reports ect), then we
generaly have no issue with letting semi-commerical stuff slide by. The main aim with 'spam patrol' is
not to conflict with the retail sponsor of this site (ie Rock Hardware). Thats the reason we come down like
a tonne of bricks on unknown spamming people (who have never posted before) who advertise retail
climbing gear. We are much more lax with deleting posts about non-climbing gear retail stuff. When an
item is unqiue (ie this bluies guide) then we are usually happy to let this forums be used to promote the
item.


tnd

11-Apr-2007
4:53:30 PM

On 11/04/2007 mikepatt wrote:
>Suddenly the scene changed and I was belaying, a beautiful young blonde
>strolled along the base of the crag and idly started chatting with some
>other climbers. I thought again I was either in a movie or a dream, as
>the sun set on the western horizon.

Mike, what the hell are you smoking up there?


anthonyk

11-Apr-2007
5:37:39 PM

any significant grade changes people have noticed? i think there were rumours about half the 23s in the mountains getting the chop but haven't looked through the book yet.

i always thought it was a bit funny for higher level climbers to be re-grading stuff well below their limits because i don't think they're the best at judging, and really its only the people at those grades that care what the grade gets listed as.. i wouldln't have the faintest about what the difference between what a 14 and a 16 is but i'm sure some people climbing those grades know the difference pretty well. but bah less blabber more climbing, who really cares.

Onsight

11-Apr-2007
5:45:23 PM

On 11/04/2007 anthonyk wrote:
>"The Chockstone forum is not a vehicle for unpaid advertising material,
>unless you're in with the people running the show."

What bollocks. I think that really misses the point. Numerous other new guidebooks have been announced on this forum but there has never been any problem or comment about such things before, nor should there be. It’s like you – and the troll - are advocating a double standard and are in effect saying I shouldn’t be able to do what everyone else does (and should be able to do) simply because I have contributed and helped with this web site. Well f**k that.

Like I said earlier, if you think guidebooks are irrelevant and you don’t want any new guidebooks announced in this forum when they are released, then start a new thread to discuss it, or use one of the existing spam threads. I’m certainly not going to let this trolling and whining stop me from moderating anything I consider to be spam and to the detriment to the forum.

Cheers for dragging this off-topic. If anyone has constructive feedback on the guidebook I’d be happy to hear it.

Onsight

11-Apr-2007
5:45:31 PM

Onsight

11-Apr-2007
5:59:01 PM

On 11/04/2007 anthonyk wrote:
>any significant grade changes people have noticed? i think there were
>rumours about half the 23s in the mountains getting the chop but haven't
>looked through the book yet.

I can understand why there might have been rumours about this. One source of info for a few of the areas certainly downgraded several routes. But we took that with a grain of salt, considered our own experience and opinions and asked around and discussed it with many climbers, and in the end rejected most of the down-gradings as pretty unjustified. Like I said earlier the Paddington one is one that slipped through.


anthonyk

11-Apr-2007
6:04:11 PM

On 11/04/2007 Onsight wrote:
>On 11/04/2007 anthonyk wrote:
>>"The Chockstone forum is not a vehicle for unpaid advertising material,
>>unless you're in with the people running the show."
>
>What bollocks. I think that really misses the point. Numerous other new
>guidebooks have been announced on this forum but there has never been any
>problem or comment about such things before, nor should there be. It’s
>like you – and the troll - are advocating a double standard and are in
>effect saying I shouldn’t be able to do what everyone else does (and should
>be able to do) simply because I have contributed and helped with this web
>site. Well f**k that.

i don't think there's any issues with anyone listing new guide books here. i was just saying the point the troll was making wasn't completely wrong, at least to the point of saying the guy must have his hand down his pants or his comments were pathetic or similar. personally i don't care if stuff gets posted about guide books, i think people are interested stuff about the guide book so post away. any double standards i was hinting at was when people post stuff that is also relevant to people but gets censored because it doesn't fit the interests of the people looking after the site. but thats the way it is, so be it. i don't think my comments are out of line.


anthonyk

11-Apr-2007
6:18:42 PM

...anyway

nice work on the guide book, it looks great

takes a little while to get used to the colour coding, and i think some times the length of the climb listed doesn't match the length when you add up the pitches, but it looks like its got a lot of good new features. maps look much better than the prev hand drawn ones. the big photo topos make the places look a lot more impressive and like there's a lot more interesting climbs, esp places like pierces pass.

One Day Hero

11-Apr-2007
6:36:12 PM

On 11/04/2007 Onsight wrote:

>Cheers for dragging this off-topic. If anyone has constructive feedback
>on the guidebook I’d be happy to hear it.

Here's a bit, I've only had a brief look at the guide and it looks great. One thing that did jump out at me though was the big move to four and five star routes.

Bad idea in my opinion.

You're going to start a star inflation war. I mean, if a blueys route can be worth five stars then a few Taipan routes must be worth at least eight! Where does it end?

Three stars leaves plenty of room to desribe quality, please go back to the standard system in the next edition.


nmonteith

11-Apr-2007
6:41:30 PM

I agree One Day Hero. I found the 5 star system damn confusing, and was quite disappointed at the
quality of some 2 and 3 star routes i did.

Onsight

11-Apr-2007
6:57:53 PM

>Where does it end?

At five stars. Obviously it is not seriously suggesting the routes are necessarily better than those in guidebooks which uses the three star system.

I've used overseas guidebooks which have the five star system and have personally found it really good. It might take a while to get feedback on the staring of specific routes. I note your comments, and we'll see, but just because many other Oz guidebooks use three stars in its self isn't enough reason to stick with three stars. I think it might take a while for people to get used to using the five star system (more than just a few days of use) but I see some advantages with it. I would expect other editors will use the system they think best.

maxdacat

11-Apr-2007
7:46:50 PM

the new book looks great.....the full colour topos definitely do the Bluies justice. Just a few points i thought of:

- any chance of an online route database where people can record comments on the climbs, vote on quality/grade a la Rockfax?
- the point above about free advertising isn't worth a response however i do find it odd that this is a major plug for a NSW guide in a site aimed specifically at climbing in Victoria
- 3 stars is more intuitive than 5 but hey...minor point.
- definitely would be good to get a few copies into some UK gear stores....i know i bought the current (albeit out of print) Arapiles one at Urban Rock earlier this year.....the volumes wouldn't be huge but a good guidebook can definitely help "sell" a destination so the flow on effect might be worthwhile
- slightly off topic but what is the current state of fixed pro like in the mountains and will this guide put more of spotlight thereon....take for example the following 2 climbs:
Bandoline Grip at Shipley Upper - lovely grade 18 but has a desperately reachy 2nd or 3rd clip for those 5'9 and under. might be an ideal candidate for dare i say it proper bolting with a decent lower off.
Fire Bug - nice grade 16 at Mt Boyce....the peg on the second pitch is next to useless but perhaps should be retained as a mueum piece although re-positioning and improving the single carrot belay on the final pitch might be nice
...anyway...nice job and can't wait to get back there.

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