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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 41
Author
Broken holds, Glue and outdoor route setters !!

..::- Chris -::..
1-Oct-2003
8:09:26 AM
Continue from drifting open projects.....

Should a broken hold on a climb (significant or not) be glued back on ??

This practice is done all over the world but it's usually initiated by people rather than a collective group or country ....

This is an interesting one, because the first accent may have been done say with a vital hold and then that hold goes, the climb may be un-climbable or does it become a project again??

I know and have seen it done in Nowra absolutely amazing to watch, a particular climber in NSW (quite famous) nice guy too actually had a hold around the size of 4 bricks stacked 2x2, what he did was actually drill 2 big hols in both the piece and the wall, and stuck to pieces of steel in the hold, then lined up the rods and glued it onto the rock (reinforced) so to speak.... the effort to do this was unbeleivable as it was at South Central (massively overhung... There are also a number of glued holds at Centenial Glen at the blue mountains and I also beleive Punks in the Gym. (Please correct me if i'm wrong).....

Being 95k and having a preference to overhung routes I've broken a few holds here and there, no cruicial ones, but i wonder if someone changes a climb (perhaps makes it impossible) should they then glue the hold back on ??

nmonteith
1-Oct-2003
8:42:26 AM
I have never had to glue a hold back on one my new routes - but in one instance I reinforced a fragile flaky edge with glue. I think preventative gluing is a good idea if the rock quality isn't super great. I know a lot of hard routes have glue re-inforced edges - not just in NSW but also in VIC.Rock that is soft and 'crumbles' rather than snapping clean off is when re-inforcing is a really good idea.
James
1-Oct-2003
8:43:47 AM
glueing holds is just the same as chipping (dare I say almost as bad as matty brooks' bolting efforts).

if a hold break, leave it as is. If the climb can no longer be done, then so be it (one climb less is surely not the end of the world).

shiltz
1-Oct-2003
9:00:15 AM
Lots of routes get harder over the years. The rock gets polished, holds break off, granite defoliates under weathering or fire, etc. In the Blue Mountains whole rock faces can vanish (I think Dog Face is a good example?), not to mention what can happen in truly alpine areas around the world.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the environment is constantly changing. In this context though I don't believe that glueing back a particularly crucial hold is a bad thing. If you loved the route how it was and want to preserve it a little longer then go for it. Just don't make a mess of it. It should never be obvious to the casual observer!

..::- Chris -::..
1-Oct-2003
9:06:15 AM
Neil couple of questions for you...

Any 3 or 2 star classics with glued holds ?? or any that are worth a mention. I didn't realize we had many in Vic. Any at Araps or Gramps ??........

Also what do you think Neil when a vital hold comes of a climb, and then that climb becomes un climbable do you think glue is the answer or as James wrote "Another one bytes the dust??"

Cheers
Chris
Chris.

nmonteith
1-Oct-2003
9:36:39 AM
Punks certainly has a a glued edge. My memory is not serving me well this morning.

If the climb is bolted, chalked and popualr than i woudl glue the hold back on immediaty. Chances are most people would be hard pressed to notice the glue.

nmonteith
1-Oct-2003
9:38:02 AM
Gilgamesh ** 31 on lower Taipan has a glued on vital crimper!

HM33
1-Oct-2003
9:47:25 AM
so many routes in the blue mountains have glue reinforced holds. these routes would not exist if the developer had not reinforcd the holds prior to climbing it. i have no problem with preventative reinforcment

steve
Dalai
1-Oct-2003
9:48:40 AM
The 'bird bath' on Punks definitely. I remember hearing some holds on Angular were reinforced. I have done it once in the You Yangs. As long as it's relatively discrete I have no problems.

Once again it comes down to what has the biggest impact
- discrete glue - negligible
- bolts - more visible if looking hard
- wire brushing - indisciminate brushing very noticeable
-path to the cliff - seen for miles
mikl law
1-Oct-2003
12:18:30 PM
Different rock, different ethics, there was a lot of chipping in the mountains (lots by me) until glue came around to stick back holds that would only take one ascent and then leave the route impossible (not Araps impossible, Taipan impossible!).

90% or more of the hard route in the Blueys are re-inforced, less than 5% in victoria (wild guess on the southern front).

Richard
1-Oct-2003
1:15:15 PM
Werribee gorge should be glued. All of it.

Take a couple of buckets.

Then again, maybe we should let it fall down.....
kieranl
1-Oct-2003
10:03:00 PM
Losing Werribee would be no great loss to me but I haven't climbed there for about 20 years so my opinion isn't relevant.
I don't think glue reinforcement of holds is a good idea. The whole thing will break down at some time, whether it's the glue or the rock on either side of the glue.
I have a laissez-faire attitude to it. If a vital hold disappears off a climb then it's a bit sad but it's only a climb; it's not like it was really important.
In regard to the glue-reinforced hold on Punks, when Louise Shepherd was preparing her guide to Arapiles I floated the proposal that climbs with glued or chipped holds should be given an aid grade to reflect the non-natural state of some holds. Louise passed that suggestion on through Argus but I am not aware of any response.
Is there a glue-reinforced hold on Gilgamesh? I'll ask Malcolm.

nmonteith
2-Oct-2003
10:07:05 AM
Sorry - Pegasus has the glued hold not Gilgamesh. On Gilgamesh there looked like a chipped letter box slot at the lip. If it is natural than it is very 'regular' as Malcolm woudl say....
climbingjac
2-Oct-2003
10:34:07 AM
Oh the controversy! Is there seriously a "regular" pocket on Gilgamesh?

nmonteith
2-Oct-2003
10:53:51 AM
I am not saying it was defiantly chipped - but it looked mighty sus to me. I aided the route in 1998.

Donut King
2-Oct-2003
2:54:09 PM
glueing holds back on , "reinforcing" points of weakness...all sounds a bit contrived to me.

if the 17 turns into a 23 cos a hold disspaears then so bit it. i dont think any one should treat holds as replacable.

i remember climbing in the UK a few years ago, looking for "warm-up" routes and being gripped silly on HVS-E1 routes. they had seen soo much traffic over the years that what once was a positive hold had almost all but vanished...it was amazing.

No talk there about "resurfacing" the rock to improve friction (lets not talk about resin (pof) here)

if a vital hold breaks and the grade climbs a few nothches then does it become a "new" project???

Cheers

dk
Dalai
2-Oct-2003
3:17:39 PM
On 2/10/2003 Donut King wrote:
>if a vital hold breaks and the grade climbs a few nothches then does it
>become a "new" project???

If the answer is yes to that, I can just see now people out the crag, cold chisel in hand hitting holds they don't use off climbs and claiming the first ascent...

..::- Chris -::..
2-Oct-2003
3:20:52 PM
DK,
Actually the HVS E1 was in fact two climbs to the right, as it turns out you were actually climbing an E9 death route which was actually chipped, sanded, enhanced and glued originally.... hehehe
..... but you got the tick, and you did it in your Jeans.....

>> If a vital hold breaks and the grade climbs a few notches then does it become a project ???
Well not if you glue the hold back on !! hehehe No seriously it is a great question I beleive it would be just upgraded and maybe the next FA could get a small mention, in the next reprint?? not sure?? Good question!!

Has this happened before. ?? I know of heaps of boulder problems where this has happened, usually ruins the problem unfortunatly....

Cheers
Chris. : )

nmonteith
2-Oct-2003
4:20:14 PM
This is all little bit close to home suddenly - a few weekends back Tim Storey ripped the crux hold (for me) off the start of Centrifugal Force (24) at Centurion. It now is a very reachy grade 25+ route. The hold came cleanly off - he actually returned it to me for safe keeping! So, should i just keep it or glue it back on?

..::- Chris -::..
2-Oct-2003
4:38:47 PM
Neil,
Nah leave it off.

From the desk of
Chris "I'm 6'2 with a +4 ape factor and enjoy long reaches and Dyno's" Noye

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There are 41 messages in this topic.

 

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