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Docs rant thread

drdeviousii

10-Jul-2006
3:52:48 PM

> Dear climbers,
>
>Burnley has been open a little over 2 months now, so it's definitely time for a little bit of a >review, and a debrief on where we are at.
>
>We have received nothing but positive feedback regarding the presence of the bouldering >walls, and the people using them. I thought you should all be aware of this feedback. Well >done to everyone that has been using the wall for representing our climbing community in >such a positive light, and for being so welcoming of newcomers. You should also know that >the local residents are thrilled to bits about the walls, and have not felt any annoyance in >terms of too many cars parked at the front of their homes.
>
>In other news, a combination of local support, a constant stream of climber traffic, and >perhaps a little bit of respect regarding the efforts you have put in to build your walls, has >meant that the bouldering walls have, thus far (touch wood!) enjoyed a vandalism and >theft-free existence. Yay!
>
>Our dream of expanding the climbing community by means of using Burnley as an open >invitation to "come and try" is definitely now coming true. Loads of beginners are having a >crack at climbing at Burnley in their runners – and we have noted many of them coming >back multiple times. We have kept a close eye on how these people are going on the routes >we have provided, and have plans in place to add a new climb to the 30 degree wall that >assists them with the transition into the world of overhanging terrain.
>
>Bogong Equipment - one of Burnley's sponsors - has noted a distinct increase in the >number of beginners coming into the store to purchase climbing shoes (such beginners >have indicated to Bogong that they started climbing at Burnley). This is also fantastic news >– we are really pleased that Bogong's support of the project is now paying off, and that the >newcomers Burnley generates are finding their way to such a great store, where they can >get fantastic advice on their intended purchase.
>
>Well done to everyone once again. Let's keep this great networking up. Let's keep referring >newcomers who are keen to acquire climbing shoes and chalkbags on to Bogong >Equipment, and let's keep making the newcomers aware of the existence of climbing gyms >in Melbourne (specifically our sponsors - Hardrock in Nunawading, and the Victorian >Climbing Centre in Seaford) so they can try some nice tall climbs, as a contrast to their >bouldering experience at Burnley.
>
>A huge thankyou to everyone once again for helping make Burnley so successful.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Jacqui Middleton
>BURNLEY PROJECT
>The Victorian Climbing Club working with Parks Victoria

drdeviousii

10-Jul-2006
3:57:23 PM

since when was Burnley designed to be a way to introduce newbies to climbing? Is the new Burnley designed to intent to provide a replacement training venue, or is it an advertising tool for certain retailers?

the old Burnely was designed as a serious training venue for climbers - I very much doubt Chris Shepherd's vision was for a facility to line retail sponsors pockets!!

Onsight

10-Jul-2006
4:08:23 PM

Interesting points Dr.

Thanks for raising them.

Incidentally, is your post a copy of the one Jacqui censored earlier?

dalai

10-Jul-2006
4:19:21 PM

I second Onsights post. Doc does have a right to voice an opinion in this forum as above. It doesn't contravene the SPAM And Offensive Posts list.

Hopefully this topic may stay longer than the first two.

chalkischeap

10-Jul-2006
4:21:33 PM

Do you object to introducing new people into climbing?

Have you been to Burnley and noticed that it has options for people at all levels?

Is this low level of sponsorship such a problem for you?

Can you think of something a little more positive to contribute?


manacubus

10-Jul-2006
4:34:59 PM

Evaluating the impacts of [things] (in this case the construction of Burnley) on the sport of climbing is positive. This is a discussion board. The Dr raises some interesting points. Discuss.

climbingjac

10-Jul-2006
4:54:22 PM

Here's a concept for you to discuss – no financial supporters equals no Burnley at all. The financial supporters were not prepared to support Burnley unless it catered for everyone, including people that fancied trying climbing for the first time. Anyone that has a beef with sharing a free facility that is open 24x7 is a bit selfish, but is adequately catered for by numerous gyms around Melbourne.

drdeviousii

10-Jul-2006
4:58:09 PM

On 10/07/2006 chalkischeap wrote:
>Do you object to introducing new people into climbing?

If people really want to get into climbing, there are many different ways. I do not agree with this wholesale public promotion of climbing that is being pushed by some people.

>Have you been to Burnley and noticed that it has options for people at
>all levels?

Burnely was always a serious training venue, its dissappointing that this aspect is not being promoted.

>Is this low level of sponsorship such a problem for you?

There have been multiple "sponsors" of the project. It appears that 1 particular sponsor is getting a special plug here. Using Burnely as a advertising tool smacks of hypocrisy.

I very much doubt that I'm the only one here that disagrees with shamless plugs on the other thread.

drdeviousii

10-Jul-2006
4:59:45 PM

We were part of the people who worked on the wall. Holds from our wall were donated to Burnley. Don't
presume you know all the answers. We are an investor in this wall just as much as your commercial
'buddies'. If we charged you a hourly $$ rate for the work we did it would be more than what Bogong
donated. We really appreciate the energy and time you have put into this amazing project Jacqui
however. you just need to chill out on the commercial plugs and hype for promoting beginners. We built
the wall to train, not to use as a commercial launch pad for retail success. Some of us actually don't
want crowds at our climbing venues. If we wanted school groups we would still be going to the gym or
even worse, Summerday Valley.

I think we have a valid point.

Signed the collective DD (yes, we speak for many)

drdeviousii

10-Jul-2006
5:01:46 PM

We liked the original Burnley because it was a place where mates could
hang out and climb without the hassle of tourists and school groups. Sponsors should not
expect profits to be directly generated. They donated money towards the project as a gift to the
climbing community. That is what donations are about. Donations are different from a financial
investment. If a company 'invests' in something expecting a return on their investment, (more
beginners buying shoes), then it is suddenly a commercial arrangement and in our opinion
commercializing the wall. Is this the arrangment with Bogong and the other retailers?

drdeviousii

10-Jul-2006
5:03:57 PM

climbingjaq wrote:
>Sorry – our financial backers did not donate money as a gift. Each of them (and justifiably so) asked
>the question "What do I get for my money?".

>I appreciate that you are able to say that you appreciate my efforts – but please try to understand that
>we absolutely had to tell the sponsors what they'd get for their money – and we still need them now.

[from PM messages]

drdeviousii

10-Jul-2006
5:07:53 PM

On 10/07/2006 Onsight wrote:
>Incidentally, is your post a copy of the one Jacqui censored earlier?

no. the original got deleted so we had to rewrite it from scratch.

gfdonc

10-Jul-2006
5:38:29 PM

Ah, sorry, now I see what you're on about.

I never knew the "old" Burnley so can't comment on that. But what is apparent to me is (DD) you're hung up on comparing the "old" Burnley with the "new" Burnley.

I also miss the days when you could drive into the Pines, unload from the back of your car, and get water without having to walk all the way down the hill. Then again, there are some on this forum that probably miss being able to bash pitons into cracks. But those days are gone, _get_over_it!

The New Burnley is good. I like it. It is well constructed, offers something for climbers at a range of levels - IMHO slanted towards those able to pull 24+ - and is doing positive things for the sport of climbing. It's also free, which might mean it sees a fair number of visitors, and you might have to wait behind others. If you want to recreate your "old" Burnley, go for it! For me, I'll be carrying a water container, and leaving the hammer at home.

drdeviousii

10-Jul-2006
5:53:46 PM

It does not have to be crowded. Featuring the wall on Coxys Big Break, or other such nonsense, is
only promoting the overuse of a very limited resource. Do we really need to actively encourge more
climbers? Let me ask the question.

When was the last time you enjoyed sharing a crag with 30 absielers?

Do you want more chalk and grease on your holds?

Do you want to queue for every climb?

Do you want to walk further because the car park is full?

Do you want to see the bush trampled to death?

Do you want to see more government regulation in climbing?

All these factors come about because of more climbers. These are the climbers that will emerge from
this sort of management of Burnley -

climbingjac wrote
>"Our dream of expanding the climbing community by means of using Burnley as an open invitation to
>"come and try" is definitely now coming true.

It is nothing to do with old vrs new Burnley. It to do with the intent and purpose of the current facility. A
climbing gym needs to attract punters as they profit from a larger customer base. Burnley should not
be set up in the same way. There is plenty of climbers who will use the facility currently. We don't
need to attract more.

chalkischeap

10-Jul-2006
6:00:04 PM

Hmmm - I thought that this thread had an elitist core to it.

Maybe a few more climbers would benefit climbing and raise standards.

There is so much rock out there - and no one is climbing it.


JBM

10-Jul-2006
6:02:40 PM

Do you also object to Rock Hardware sponsoring this site....?

Not to mention, it promotes climbing to the public... which means more climbers...which means more
people in the bush (god forbid enjoying themselves)...which could lead to global warming...and then
possibly..economic downturn as all the newbies leverage themselved to the hilt on shiny new racks....

Honestly, there has to be more valid (read: interesting) topic to discuss?

Also, remind me not to PM you...ever. Obviously the "Private" in PM holds no sancity.

Go start a grade 36 project...


nmonteith

10-Jul-2006
6:05:42 PM

On 10/07/2006 chalkischeap wrote:
>There is so much rock out there - and no one is climbing it.

I disagree Mike. Every bit of rock can be climbed - but it doesn't need to have climbers on it 24/7. Places
like Arapiles, Werribie, Camels, Summer Day and Spurt are really trashed compared to when i started
climbing there (10 years ago). I shudder to think what they will look like in 50 years time.

drdeviousii

10-Jul-2006
6:15:09 PM

On 10/07/2006 JBM wrote:
>Do you also object to Rock Hardware sponsoring this site....?

yep

>Also, remind me not to PM you...ever. Obviously the "Private" in PM holds
>no sancity.

thatz what happens when our original two postz get deleted without rhymz or reazon. this could 'ave just
been another ignored topic in the grando scheme of the burnley thread. instead we had our opinionz
removed & thus resulting in this fab and popular topic.


timmy

10-Jul-2006
6:48:28 PM

What in hell is going on??? Are people bitching about having a free facility? Having to share the wall? Having to share a crag? Are the red and green neon signs of Burnley sponsors too bright that the glare is stopping you from doing that crucial cross through?

What the f*uck?? Selfish pricks...

If you don't want to share the wall with people who don't climb as hard as you, go build your own wall and keep it a secret..

If you don't want to share a crag, you're a selfish idiot...

If you don't like the idea of corporate sponsors making the odd dollar (they won't be getting rich too quickly by selling 3 pairs of shoes a month) from an investment they made.... don't buy from the sponsor. It's that simple.

If you liked old Burnley more, go climb there, you'll have it all to yourself!!

The fact is, a lot of people volunteered hundreds of hours worth of time, and corporate sponsors invested a lot of money into getting this off the ground. Show a little f*cking gratitude for the fact that it's free, it's easy to get to, and it caters for everyone.

There are many options if you don't like sharing a sponsored wall.

-Bitch and moan incessantly about it, but still use the facility anyway.
-Go pay $11 at commercial venture (now you'll be directly supporting the corporate ventures), -Build your own wall, but you'll have to buy some holds from someone....
-Go and climb some real rock
-Just shut the f*ck up and use it for what it is, a free facility..

kieranl

10-Jul-2006
8:18:14 PM

On 10/07/2006 drdeviousii wrote:
>Burnely was always a serious training venue, its dissappointing that this
>aspect is not being promoted.

So promote it; what's stopping you?

There are 86 messages in this topic.