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General Climbing Discussion

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Trad climb? (2)

4:29:53 PM
Re Eddyms post; The particular climb is 'Out & Beyond' on Belougery Spire.
We ran out of time on our 1st attempt due to putting up a new direct start to it (onsight), as we started from the lowest bit of vertical rock available on the East face. This gave one and a half pitches before joining the original line which commenced higher up due to the 1st ascentionists approaching the climb from the South (as compared to us approaching from the North).
If you think this is confusing you ought to try bushbashing in that part of the world!

To get back to your "integrity of the 'original' nature of the route"; this route is gutsy for the lowly grade of 15/16, as it involves a novel long-stepping ("falling" says the original guidebook) off a pinnacle onto a face, then traversing for more than half a ropelength "out and beyond' an arete. This is about 150m off the deck (at half height on the climb). Every move of the traverse adds significant exposure because you are above overhanging rock and the ground drops away into a valley below the spire. Without the pin the last 5m is on RP#3 pro, but with long (read trad-long) slings one can fiddle other pro together as well, (by climbing up the wall a little, applying jiggery pokery then downclimbing to continue the traverse).
I admire the 1st ascentionists to have had the balls to try it (on spec ?) just to see if it goes, ... because what is around the arete is out of sight, ... and you are committing to this mega traverse on increasingly thin gear.
The pin I removed was an early chouinard knifeblade, however the original belay around the arete has these fantastic 'original' pitons which are shaped like oversized horseshoe nails with a fixed ring. I love the innovation, and believe they should remain insitu as historical items as they are obviously much older than the subsequent knifeblade placed on the traverse. They serve to confirm to subsequent parties the nature of the original climbing, plus the fact that you are indeed on the correct line. (This is no small matter on many 'Bungles routes).
I have done this traverse a number of times and have not noticed any pin scars on it, so I assume the !st ascentionists did it 'boldly'.

You are also correct Ed, about the issue of grade ability. The person who lambasted me was leading at his limit at the time. As a side note his eyes were still wide as saucers when we met some time afterwards due to his 'ordeal'. He probably assumed I was a gear freak (correctly ?), and had souvenired the pin for my rack. If this was the case, I would be much more interested in the improvised home made pitons to be found around the corner of the arete for their historical value.

Regarding others contributions to this thread; I agree that if the fixed gear in question is not integral to the route re 1st ascentionists etc, then it should be removed. Particularly if it is unsafe, as it becomes a time bomb for others less experienced when they try to use it.

It also annoys me greatly to find a line like Holden Caulfield at Mt Buffalo basically a 'clip-up' (referring specifically to the pitch consisting of a beautiful thin crack below the main roof sprouting heaps of wires), due to the amount of fixed gear buggering what would otherwise be a very enjoyable 'lead'. I consider this lazyness and inconsiderate littering which detracts from the challenge and enjoyment of subsequent (aid) ascent parties.

4:53:30 PM
On 21/05/2003 eddym wrote:
>Sounds good Rich.
>Do you have any examples of where you have done this?

haha.. read my post again Eddy.. "if u have the motivation" is mentioned there somewhere I believe.. ;-)
10:34:20 PM
Hey Eddy,
Of course you didn't make a comment about my climbing talent and I never suggested you did. What you questioned was my climbing judgement. I gave you an honest answer and you poured scorn on my opinion because (by my own admission) I hadn't done the climb. I'll stand by my opinion and take the flack if I'm wrong.
Comments about egos aren't particularly helpful. We could all be accused of problems in that area.
12:12:55 PM
Thanks A5. That was a really interesting and informative read.

I can completely understand your comments about existing 'fixed gear' that was not integral to the first ascent. This factor is the main reason why I would be hesitant about removing gear from a route I don't really have a complete historical knowledge of I guess.

Actually, it sounds like you might be the guy to initiate another discusion I wanted to bring to this forum to get peoples thoughts. I was thinking of starting a new Topic about clean aid vs the hammer. This is something I know little about and I'd be interested to hear what the local opinions are on this subject. What are your thoughts on the subject? Are you interested in initiating the Topic?
10:28:21 PM
Eddy, one of the problems that I have with you is that you don't identify yourself. If you log into the chockstone website you can see who I am and email me directly. I can't do that with you. You haven't responded to recent comments from Neil Monteith and myself.
Here's a contrast in operation, I have never met Neil Monteith, but I have seen some of what he has done climbing-wise and I have read his posts. If I see a post from Neil, then I have some context. To me you are just an anonymous fart dissipating in the breeze.
If you have the courage to identify yourself then I will acknowledge your credibilty.

Donut King
11:55:27 PM
kieranl wrote:
"To me you are just an anonymous fart dissipating in the breeze."

hahaaaahahahhahahahahahahahh...oh the laughter....!!!!!...oh does that mean me as well?..darn it..hmmmmmmmmm...if only ihad the courage like you mr Lion, do you think the wizard can help me

to quote dorothy:

"My goodness, what a fuss you're making. Well, naturally, when you go around picking on things weaker than you are -- Why, you're nothing but a great big coward!"

kieranl, with 30 yrs of climbing experience I'm sure no one sees you as a gumbie

7:15:53 PM
It's been a pleasure Kieren.


Eddy Mofardin
10:19:26 PM
I doubt that. It certainly hasn't been from my side, but this is the end from my side as well.

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