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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author
Pre-placed quickdraws.
mountbeckworth
28-Aug-2018
5:27:00 AM
Curious as to what grade you have to be climbing to have all quickdraws pre-placed. Youtube videos show most really hard climbs have the gear already there. If I do it on a grade 10 I look like an idiot. If the top climbers say the climb is too difficult to carry carabiners and quickdraws, can I say the 10 is too hard without doing the same? Is it equivalent to the fixed ladder on the Hillary Step, or catching a taxi for part of a marathon, because I was too tired to run it all?
jacksonclimbs
28-Aug-2018
6:05:08 AM
I don't think you should really count your 10 even if you do place the draws, as the bolts were already pre-placed. It really only counts if you drill and place the bolts while you're on lead.

/serious - Which top climber said pre-placed draws was because it was too difficult to carry? I think it's just that sport climbers are happy to climb with the ethic that has developed around pre-placed draws. There is a good discussion of the issue on episode 143 of the Enormocast, HB gets a mention, and they discuss the term 'pink point' and whether it should be dropped. Found their take on it interesting, as they believe there is a sexist connotation to the term pink point. In the end they agree that there should be a term for climbing a trad route on pre-placed pro, but that it shouldn't be 'pink point'.

Enormocast 143 here
Jayford4321
28-Aug-2018
7:05:02 AM
On 28-Aug-2018 mountbeckworth wrote:
>Pre-placed quickdraws
First world problem dude.

On 28-Aug-2018 jacksonclimbs wrote:
>I think it's just that sport climbers are happy to climb with the ethic that has developed around pre-placed draws.
What ethic?

>In the end they agree that there should be a term for climbing a trad route on pre-placed pro, but that it shouldn't be 'pink point'.
Trad on preplaced pro is called aid.

Slab on 1/4 refaced soles is called rage.
jacksonclimbs
28-Aug-2018
1:36:16 PM
Aid Climbing

Aid climbing is a style of climbing in which standing on or pulling oneself up via devices attached to fixed or placed protection is used to make upward progress.

- you're not pulling up on pre-placed trad gear.

Ethic

1. a set of moral principles, especially ones relating to or affirming a specified group, field, or form of conduct.

- i.e. sport climbers, the specified group, are happy to climb with the moral principle that 'pre-placed draws is ok'

rodw
28-Aug-2018
3:14:41 PM
On 28-Aug-2018 mountbeckworth wrote:
>. If the top climbers
>say the climb is too difficult to carry carabiners and quickdraws, can
>I say the 10 is too hard without doing the same?

Say what ya like, no ones cares, who gives a shit what others do...make your own rules and sleep well.

Grinder
28-Aug-2018
3:44:42 PM
22

Grinder
28-Aug-2018
4:40:28 PM
Grade 21 is the threshold of the old guard and the new wave. People climbed grade 21 in leather boots, woollen ropes and gloves for belay devices on coach trips from the city. It was an adventure and placing gear (or no gear) along the way was part of the adventure and part of the ethic. Ethics are critical in the pursuit of adventure. How you do it is more important than if you do it, or die.

Then came the new wave; with tights. They could climb grade 22. Tights made climbing a sport and sport is all about highest, fastest, strongest. Ethics are flexible in the pursuit of success, rather than adventure.

Sure, there are no regulations. You won’t be fined, but you will be judged. If you don’t have the power to place gear on a grade 10, just back off a grade or two. You’ll find that the eyes in the sky will respect an onsight 8 infinitely more than a pink-pointed 10. Don’t rest on your laurels though. Work on it, get strong and you’ll find the 10’s will follow. Once you’re up to grade 22, you will be eligible to wear tights, take your top off and choose your own ethic; adventurer, purist, bi, soft, cheat. Meanwhile, enjoy the adventure.
dan_b
28-Aug-2018
4:41:14 PM
Anything harder than your onsight limit I would have thought
Stugang
28-Aug-2018
9:34:59 PM
IMO this is more of a financial decision than an ethical one.

Fixed gear regardless of the grade of route is is fine. Leave it in situ and it becomes potential booty. Much more likely to be bootied if it’s an easier route as there are more people around that are capable of bootying it. Also more likely that it’ll piss someone off who confuses climbing ability with moral superiority and therefore feel justified in stealing your gear

[post edit. ie. someone like odh who feels morally-socio-technically-ethically superior to us all]

Like I said it’s a financial dilemma.
jacksonclimbs
28-Aug-2018
11:36:30 PM
This is why I acid-etch the nylon runner on a random quickdraw I leave on my projects... would be crag-booty pirates beware!
One Day Hero
29-Aug-2018
2:56:15 AM
On 28-Aug-2018 Stugang wrote:
>IMO this is more of a financial decision than an ethical one.

Pffff, ridiculous. The decision is obviously socio-ethical, you double capped bumbly.
Stugang
29-Aug-2018
7:39:32 AM
Fair call hero. I’ve edited the above post to make your universal superiority more evident.

PS. Mr OP. Watch out for hero sporting a hex in the campground. If you don’t know him he’s probably the guy wearing your fave #10 hex round his neck after snaffling it off your abandoned grade 10 project.

widewetandslippery
29-Aug-2018
3:48:47 PM
Firstly I,d like to hope this is a troll, I like trolls. Pinkpoint appeared shortly before the term trad. It an Americanism, the conservative, the liberal, the people blessed on earth, the pinkos. Take the points for getting up a grade 10 anyway you can. Climbing is silly so don't worry how you look, you are being silly.
Mr Poopypants
29-Aug-2018
4:23:21 PM
On 29-Aug-2018 widewetandslippery wrote:

>Climbing is silly so don't worry how you look, you are being silly.


Beautiful.
G

Macciza
27-Sep-2018
5:15:16 PM
Pinkpoint sexist?? FFS!!
Pink is a lighter shade of red, that's all... it's the same thinking that had traditional boys colours as pink because it was a lighter shade of the masculine red ... girls used to be blue ...
So if anything it's 'Agist' suggesting you're climbing like a boy rather than a man ....
gfdonc
30-Sep-2018
7:08:43 PM
from http://www.elcapreport.com/content/elcap-report-92818 (scroll to end)
> In other news: Camp 4 is going to be without a campground ranger starting on Oct 1.

It seems 'Pinky' has retired?

There are 16 messages in this topic.

 

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