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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 69
Author
Liquid Insanity

E. Wells
2-Apr-2018
12:36:33 PM
There is much I would like to write but best keep it succinct. The top out /rope management/ belay position for Liquid Insanity , the all time classic arette at Pt Perp , has been adversely effected by three big messy highline threaded rods. This needs to be remedied. They have sharp barbs and , apart from being right where your rope is , they get in the way when the second tops out also. The slops of epoxy all over the place arent appealing either but not dangerous.

Jayford4321
2-Apr-2018
2:32:44 PM
On 2-Apr-2018 E. Wells wrote:
>There is much I would like to write but best keep it succinct. The top
>out /rope management/ belay position for Liquid Insanity , the all time
>classic arette at Pt Perp , has been adversely effected by three big messy
>highline threaded rods. This needs to be remedied. They have sharp barbs
>and , apart from being right where your rope is , they get in the way when
>the second tops out also. The slops of epoxy all over the place arent appealing
>either but not dangerous.

Why didn't you do a better job of retroing?

E. Wells
2-Apr-2018
7:34:08 PM
To clarify it was obstructing the belay of Liquid Insanity Direct. Highliners should consider this an opportunity to remedy this. I have no more to type in the subject.
One Day Hero
2-Apr-2018
8:46:49 PM
If there's one good thing I have to say about highliners, they may give some perspective to sport climbers on how it feels when a new user group arrives with a drill and fuchs up a place you love. Apart from that, fuch highliners right in the arse with their stupid threaded rods.

E. Wells
3-Apr-2018
5:18:10 AM
This was a day after I brought a large rack to an offwidth at a newish cliff I hadnt been to in six months , to find out that it had been fully bolted , 'no-one would climb it otherwise'. Good times.

Macciza
3-Apr-2018
12:51:33 PM
May as well chop the bolts then ....
Dave J
3-Apr-2018
9:30:18 PM
On 2-Apr-2018 One Day Hero wrote:
>If there's one good thing I have to say about highliners, they may give
>some perspective to sport climbers on how it feels when a new user group
>arrives with a drill and fuchs up a place you love. Apart from that, fuch
>highliners right in the arse with their stupid threaded rods.
I was super impressed with highliners at araps last year with a very strict natural anchor policy for new lines. Then they went back and established first natural anchor ascents for all previous slack lines. compared to climbers it seems they have evolved a lighfootprint ethic very quickly (In vic at least). I cant actually imagine climbing in vic getting to this same ethical high point....ever actually.
feetoffground
9-Apr-2018
12:27:25 PM
Hi E. Wells I'm sorry to hear these highline bolts adversely affected the climb. I was alerted to this problem last week by my friend when I was in Mt Buffalo. So this past weekend I went back to Point Perp and remedied the problem.

I have now placed rounded hangers on all threaded rod at the Perp. And I also climbed Liquid Insanity to see if these bolts are an obstruction - great climb, and I ended up belaying my partner off the highline bolts which are in a good spot because you can sit on the edge and watch them climb while you belay. The nuts over the hangers also block the sharp edges that were present before (in case you still want to belay further back from the edge). I do admit the glue job on this one was pretty piss poor - I am generally quite conscious of this, but as we did these bolts at night with hectic winds howling at us, it was not the best outcome in terms of cleanliness.

On a personal note, Point Perp is for sure one of the most beautiful spots in Australia, and I have no intention of f'ing it up. I started climbing at the perp a while back and have since brought highlining there as it is perhaps the most perfect spot for it, with amazing views, flat ledges and perpendicular cliffs making for amazing gaps. As someone previously mentioned the highline bolting ethic is in constant evolution, and in places like Arapiles we have been able to go completely bolt free. Other spots like Point Perp don't lend themselves to Natural highlines as much (although there are a couple), but we do try to minimise our impact and create the most utility for all user groups. I hope that we can share this place for many years to come. If you do have any other gripes I am more than happy to hear and discuss them.

Images below:

5_E9859_A4_427_C_4_A5_D_A3_E0_4_E6_A611_AA967
68_A56_C71_FB53_4_E80_A6_DC_2_F00_D6_FADF44
ED0_CB7_B6_809_C_4_A4_B_8509_9_E8_A3136_B5_FD
One Day Hero
9-Apr-2018
7:32:15 PM
Hey feets, you sound like a reasonable dude. I can see how a bit of highlining at the point is an attractive proposition. I can also see a future where every single arete down there has three fat rings on it, and I'm not ok with that idea. In fact, I had an idea of there being a bit of a "no rings or fixed hangers on top of point perp, and no bolts where natural gear is available" ethic.

Anyways, I'm not going to chop your highliner bolts for now. If it starts getting out of hand, I'll chop them all, and go do some punitive ones at Pierce's and Corroboree, etc, etc. You know the deal. Get on to the highliner community, establish hard limits for how many of these things go in, police it yourselves, or it's bye bye to all your anchors. I'm not really interested in negotiation.

cheers
feetoffground
10-Apr-2018
7:31:25 AM
On 9-Apr-2018 One Day Hero wrote:
>Hey feets, you sound like a reasonable dude. I can see how a bit of highlining
>at the point is an attractive proposition. I can also see a future where
>every single arete down there has three fat rings on it, and I'm not ok
>with that idea. In fact, I had an idea of there being a bit of a "no rings
>or fixed hangers on top of point perp, and no bolts where natural gear
>is available" ethic.
>
>Anyways, I'm not going to chop your highliner bolts for now. If it starts
>getting out of hand, I'll chop them all, and go do some punitive ones at
>Pierce's and Corroboree, etc, etc. You know the deal. Get on to the highliner
>community, establish hard limits for how many of these things go in, police
>it yourselves, or it's bye bye to all your anchors. I'm not really interested
>in negotiation.
>
>cheers


As aggressive as that sounds, I understand where you're coming from, and I definitely don't want it to come to that. Next time you're down at the perp have a look at our highline bolts, if you or anyone else still find them dangerous, or overly annoying let me know which ones and I am happy to get rid of them myself. Would certainly prefer if the highline and climbing community stay on good terms.
One Day Hero
10-Apr-2018
4:25:32 PM
It's not meant that agressively, dude. Just sick of seeing the same bullshit on repeat (mostly from sport climbers). The reality is, you have no way of controlling what the "highlining community" does down there. Whatever reassurances you give, some random with a drill can and will roll up and find the "amazing line that everyone missed".

The only possible options for climbing areas are; a) everything gets slowly grid bolted by successive generations, or b) a group of climbers draw a line and defend it. Climbing (and now slacklining) need to evolve from the terra nullius model where any patch of rock not previously claimed as a route is open for bolting.
feetoffground
10-Apr-2018
6:11:46 PM
Yeah sweet, I figured that was the case. I know I definitely can't control everyone, but the advantage with highlining at the moment is that it is a very small community, and I basically know everyone in Australia who is developing highlines, so I can definitely get the word out, that nothing further will be bolted at the Perp until we have consulted each other.

And in fact in a couple of weeks, the NSW highlining community will be meeting up to discuss new bolting standards in popular areas like: the Blueys, Sydney sea cliffs and Point Perp. So I will definitely raise this all of this with them at that time.
Markg
10-Apr-2018
6:57:04 PM
Hey Feet. Good on you for stepping up and rectifying the problem and working with other users of a public space. Glad you are actively working towards an outcome for all users.
climberman
Online Now
11-Apr-2018
9:52:40 AM
On 10-Apr-2018 feetoffground wrote:
>Yeah sweet, I figured that was the case. I know I definitely can't control
>everyone, but the advantage with highlining at the moment is that it is
>a very small community, and I basically know everyone in Australia who
>is developing highlines, so I can definitely get the word out, that nothing
>further will be bolted at the Perp until we have consulted each other.
>
>And in fact in a couple of weeks, the NSW highlining community will be
>meeting up to discuss new bolting standards in popular areas like: the
>Blueys, Sydney sea cliffs and Point Perp. So I will definitely raise this
>all of this with them at that time.

Guidelines please.
Not standards, ever, for home made recreational activities.

Guides to guide the wise
Rules for fools
Climb Point Perp
16-Apr-2018
4:24:13 PM
I went and checked out these slacklining / highlining anchors over the weekend. It turns out that there are in fact three sets of triple bolt anchors. The anchors are on top of Liquid Insanity, the mega classic ‘Rex Hunt’s Love Child’ and ‘American Bikini Jam’. I wasn’t looking very hard so there may be others. Anyone who knows Point Perp would know that these are all located right in front of the lighthouse enclosure which is a popular public lookout. Given the large number of suitable locations for highlines at Point Perp I think that going right in front of the lookout shows a real lack of judgement. It’s best for public relations to keep a low profile and slacklining in right in front of the general public doesn’t fit with that.

Another thing I think Chockstone readers might be interested to know is that according to their website “Feet Off Ground is a grass roots slackline and adventure COMPANY based in Sydney, Australia”. This was notably omitted in Feet Off Grounds post. Are people paying to use these slacklines? Are these bolts just for an advertising stunt? I also wonder why the hangers were removed from the threaded rod in the first place.

I ran into one of the Rangers in the car park and had an interesting conversation with them on the subject of slacklining. Needless to say they have access to instagram just like everyone else and are getting tired of dealing with the problems it attracts.









E. Wells
16-Apr-2018
5:09:53 PM
I think one battery would still suffice.

rodw
16-Apr-2018
5:42:45 PM

>I ran into one of the Rangers in the car park and had an interesting conversation
>with them on the subject of slack lining.

Why mention it to officials???..you seriously think they will differentiate btw climbers and slackliners once it goes up the chain of command...all they will hear is rock users being a pain in the ass and ending bad for everyone

I don't care if your for or against said bolts but deal with it between each other and leave big brother out of it..rangers are under funded stretched thin as it is and don't have time to pay police to separate rock user groups not playing nice.
feetoffground
17-Apr-2018
11:27:55 AM
On 16-Apr-2018 Climb Point Perp wrote:
>I went and checked out these slacklining / highlining anchors over the
>weekend. It turns out that there are in fact three sets of triple bolt
>anchors. The anchors are on top of Liquid Insanity, the mega classic ‘Rex
>Hunt’s Love Child’ and ‘American Bikini Jam’. I wasn’t looking very hard
>so there may be others. Anyone who knows Point Perp would know that these
>are all located right in front of the lighthouse enclosure which is a popular
>public lookout. Given the large number of suitable locations for highlines
>at Point Perp I think that going right in front of the lookout shows a
>real lack of judgement. It’s best for public relations to keep a low profile
>and slacklining in right in front of the general public doesn’t fit with
>that.
>
>Another thing I think Chockstone readers might be interested to know is
>that according to their website “Feet Off Ground is a grass roots slackline
>and adventure COMPANY based in Sydney, Australia”. This was notably omitted
>in Feet Off Grounds post. Are people paying to use these slacklines? Are
>these bolts just for an advertising stunt? I also wonder why the hangers
>were removed from the threaded rod in the first place.
>
>I ran into one of the Rangers in the car park and had an interesting conversation
>with them on the subject of slacklining. Needless to say they have access
>to instagram just like everyone else and are getting tired of dealing with
>the problems it attracts.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

There are 4 anchors and 3 potential Highlines that can be rigged in various configurations, there are no others in front of the lighthouse.

I am one of the co founders of Feet Off Ground, but these are not commercial Highlines, in fact there is no such thing as that in Australia, as insurance would be too difficult to get here. I digress, the point is this was not a commercial or advertisement stunt, it was simply a beautiful spot where I wanted to Highline. We could argue about the “judgement” of Highlining in this particular area though - sure there are other areas that are suitable, but the cliffs are very sheer in front of the lighthouse and there’s no potential to hit anything if you fall, and that’s why I chose that spot.

As I mentioned in a previous post though, I am happy to remove any/all of these lighthouse anchors, if the consensus is it’s not a good idea.

The reason the hangers were originally removed is because they are much less of a visual impact without them. In terms of placing them on top of popular climbs, I have climbed all of those routes and I found that none of them were adversely affected by these Highline bolts, and in some cases made for a much better spot to belay. But if people still don’t like it, I’ll chop hem, no questions asked.

In fact if anyone else chimes in that these bolts are no good, I will take that as a sign enough to remove them. My only defence and reason for placing them in the first place, is that it is an incredible spot to Highline, with easy access and multiple angles/lengths, that and I have a great passion for climbing and Highlining in the same spot.

nmonteith
17-Apr-2018
12:36:53 PM
On 17-Apr-2018 feetoffground wrote:
>In fact if anyone else chimes in that these bolts are no good, I will
>take that as a sign enough to remove them. My only defence and reason for
>placing them in the first place, is that it is an incredible spot to Highline,
>with easy access and multiple angles/lengths, that and I have a great passion
>for climbing and Highlining in the same spot.

Chime! One thing to note about previous anchors at Point Perp is generally they are always positioned well back from the cliff edge - so only two bolts can work as belays for several routes, and the bolts can be somewhat hidden amoungst vegetation and more weathered rock. Bolts right on the edge of the cliff - especially rings or FHs, really stand out like dogs balls on the smooth tops of the cliff - and are a major trip hazard. The area around Liquid Insanity and Rex Hunts is already plagued with an assortment of new bolts placed in the last few years that were already 'controversial' as they are not needed. I think many were placed by Defence for absquealing.

Vwills
17-Apr-2018
2:34:27 PM
I realise I am being slightly hypocritical, as a bolt placer myself in certain locations, but these seem ugly and unnecessary. As Neil says, the old anchors are often back, often machine bolts and actually can be quite hard to locate. We think the more ugly rings were placed by defence. These are another step up in visual pollution.
I may be a bit stupid when it comes to high lines, but if you can't run the line back to the more hidden existing anchors, why can't you extend them like we do with temporary static ropes and then set up high lines. I realise you need a fixation point near the arête that won't roll, but can you not use directional trad gear? Basically why can't machine bolts be used/ bring your own hangers and carabiners....

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There are 69 messages in this topic.

 

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