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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author
OT Respect and thanks to our Vietnam Vets - today.
Andy P
18-Aug-2016
3:13:52 PM
Possibly contentious but was out with a dear old mate last night who survived Long Tan but returned to a very hostile reception.
Am not opening a can of worms about the rights or wrongs but he was 19 or 20 and performed/witnessed some God-awful things 'our gen' would simply not believe!
Today we remember not just the fallen and physically injured but those who returned with The Most Dreadful emotional scars.
Respect.
Andy P.

billk
18-Aug-2016
8:43:30 PM
Nice words Andy

I'm marginally too young to have experienced all that but older friends who protested against the war never regret opposing the war but deeply regret being part of that hostile reception. Returning to that prolonged the suffering for many.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
18-Aug-2016
9:18:52 PM
+1 re Respect.

The Vietnamese farce of not allowing services at the actual Long Tan site is a real kick in the guts to the veterans that went over there for a 50 years commemoration.
Allegedly they all but closed the site to services by the aussies as it would be seen as Australians celebrating a victory when 'their history' shows the battle of Long Tan to be a Vietnamese victory...
Yeah right.
Aussies outnumbered at least 10:1
Eighteen Australians were killed and 24 wounded, while the Viet Cong lost at least 245 dead.
Our blokes were bloody lucky they weren't wiped out, let alone repelling and surviving the attack.
Vietnamese victory indeed.

I wonder how many of those that served in Vietnam had climbing as a past-time upon return?
... I doubt the safety-ised sport version of it would have supplanted the trad version of climbing for those that did.
Ithomas
19-Aug-2016
11:59:48 AM
Maybe some respect should be shown to combatants from both sides. The Vietnamese were defending their land from an invasion. They were the victims. It is their country and maybe they should call the shots. I feel for the Australians who were involved but I know that many feel uncomfortable about how this deadly skirmish is portrayed as a victory. I know this because even though I did not go to Vietnam I was called up for National Service and served in the Artillery Corps from 1972 while the war was still raging. I have lived with people who were there and have listened to their stories and dealt with their sorrows. Both sides lost many men and it should come as no surprise that there are many different opinions. Does it not seem reasonable that the Vietnamese, with nearly 250 dead, might feel a little sensitive about the location being monopolised by a former enemy? Maybe they do not want it to turn into the circus and rubbish dump into which the Gallipoli commemoration has turned - and yes, I have been there. As it turns out, the prospect of a substantially curtailed ceremony was raised some time ago by the Vietnamese authorities but no-one seemed to take any notice. The Vietnamese government eventually allowed (after one minute to midnight talks with Turnbull) a restrained dedication which to my mind seemes perfectly acceptable. The comments about trad climbing and returning vets is puerile and adds nothing to the post at all.
Ian
White Trash
19-Aug-2016
12:38:46 PM
On 19/08/2016 Ithomas wrote:
>The comments about trad climbing and returning vets is puerile and adds nothing to the post at all.
I thought it was a climbing site?
Apart from that Yer all off topic.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
19-Aug-2016
1:07:03 PM
On 19/08/2016 Ithomas wrote:
>Maybe some respect should be shown to combatants from both sides. The Vietnamese
>were defending their land from an invasion. They were the victims. It is
>their country and maybe they should call the shots.

The South Vietnamese were, but that battle was against those known as Viet Cong at the time.

>I feel for the Australians who were involved but I know that many feel uncomfortable about how this
>deadly skirmish is portrayed as a victory.

I feel for them too, and in an odd sort of way also for the Viet Cong involved in the same battle. What I was railing against is the present day politicising and propaganda that it has garnered.

>Both sides lost many men and it should come as
>no surprise that there are many different opinions. Does it not seem reasonable
>that the Vietnamese, with nearly 250 dead, might feel a little sensitive
>about the location being monopolised by a former enemy?
Monopolised?
Another documentary I've seen indicated a certain amount of reconciliation between those directly involved in that battle. I would've thought that that reconciliation process could be furthered in a one-off 50 year commemoration ceremony.


>The comments about trad climbing and returning vets is puerile
>and adds nothing to the post at all.

Your earlier remark about many opinions fits, although I'd be interested in the statistics of % of vets who are climbers vs % of general population of similar age, as well as their preferred genre of climbing.
ithomas
19-Aug-2016
1:49:07 PM
White Trash is correct - but who cares! Just remember that the term Viet Cong was invented to demonise national liberation forces which had been active since 1945 and who had been trying to kick out colonial France and then capitalistic American interests. They were simply Vietnamese who were sick of western domination and political manipulations. The forces against which the Australians fought were the so called Viet Cong plus North Vietnamese regulars and local sympathetic militia.

By the way, as far as preferred genres of rock climbing back then - there was no such thing as sport climbing. Everyone was a trad climber. Some leaned towards 'artificial climbing' but most were simply 'free climbers'. I took a rack of gear and rope to Singleton, NSW (where Queenslanders were posted for basic training) and travelled by rail to Sydney where I teamed up with Keith Bell, Ray Lassman and Peter Giles for weekend climbing.
widewetandslippery
19-Aug-2016
3:52:39 PM
My take on the Vietnam
war is simple. War is bad. Its simple to say but its shit. I know all about ptsd but what my missus got as a maybe 3yr old wearing shorts and a wooley jumper thrown on a boat as things went tits up to go to Thailand then get here. We live near RPA and she still cringes as the choppers come in. I love redgums i was only 19. She hates it. She came here and had to live hearing the channel 7 chopper. Anyone on either side or innocent victim the moment is a good reflection as to how we can be better and have respect to those that served.

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