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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 21
Author
Guide Book Production

robbie
5-Aug-2016
6:33:05 PM
Does anyone know if there are any Style Guides out there for Guide Book production?
simey
6-Aug-2016
8:35:00 AM
Our Araps guide is the style guide.

MisterGribble
6-Aug-2016
9:20:25 AM
Simey speaks the truth

He and Tempest and the Pats and Eddi of Climbing guidebooks.

Macciza
6-Aug-2016
3:02:26 PM
Theres also UIAA guidelines for typos etc . . .

Robbie
6-Aug-2016
3:53:43 PM
Thanks for that Macciza. Even with the great work being done out there by our very talented locals, a question is, can guide book standards be taken yet again, to a another level?

Superstu
6-Aug-2016
4:16:47 PM
Comic Sans everywhere, and use primary colours to distinguish body text, headings, captions, etc.


Robbie
6-Aug-2016
5:30:55 PM
The thing is I am working on a little publishing project of my own and am finding interesting variations with text info from guides local and O.S.

The following is just ONE area I am finding variations in.
Aus. Name> Stars> Height >Grade
U.K. Name> Stars> Grade> Height
Tha. Name> Grade> Gear> Height> Stars
Can. Name> Grade> Stars

A least the Name is sorted. The reason for my equiery is to find out what is needed in the framework of a route description and in what order of importance should they be placed? A template could provide such structure. What are we looking for when one pick up a guide book? Apart from modern publishing techneques, for me it's the specifics, not irregular data and flowering ramblings . So, what category of publication do guide books belong in? Street directories, technical documents, academic thesis and even Mills and Boone, all fall within specific genres of writing with publication guidelines.
Sandym
6-Aug-2016
6:44:15 PM
Sun exposure for each separate crag would be super nice to know.

E. Wells
6-Aug-2016
7:07:21 PM
I think a basic topo covers aspect/exposure.

Robbie
7-Aug-2016
10:21:54 AM
Maybe I setup a Poll in order to consolidate some data from the climbing community. Any sudgestions for what fields are needed.

robbie
7-Aug-2016
10:57:59 AM
Yep Simey, they are all fantastic publications and a great resource for ALL who visit this world class crag.

A question if I may. What do you consider the Pros and Cons of the Arapiles Selected Guides?

Have a look at the following URL to see what I am on about.
https://www.mountaineers.org/volunteers/leader-resources/publications-style-guide

IdratherbeclimbingM9
7-Aug-2016
11:03:30 AM
Target your intended audience.
You are obviously doing the homework, but it seems to me that a format for an audience changes depending if it's international or local etc.

If you over-think it then next you will be looking for a template guide to templates!

There are plenty of existing examples of guide books, and many of them can be improved upon*, though in the end the constraints are likely to be budgetary if the target audience is small.

(*I'm sure you have worked out through usage the features you like, so prioritise accordingly!)

PS; although polling Chockstone can give you some good feedback, I wouldn't expect to get exceptional concensus!
Heh, heh, heh.
tonytas
7-Aug-2016
1:15:21 PM
The new(-ish, 2014) guide, The Dolomites : Rock Climbs and via Ferrata by James Rushforth, published by Rockfax (in English, a big bonus) set the bar high for new guides. It has excellent and comprehensive photo topos, a good range of sport, trad climbs and some better quality via ferrata. There are regular updates on the web, down-loadable sections to phone, a current app and more, a great blend of print and digital technologies. And a reasonable price.
Haven't seen a local guide yet which brings it all together as this one does but there is probably one out there. If you haven't seen it before, worth looking at to see how it can be done.
PS A pity the route info in it isn't always 100% accurate but hey, you can't have every thing!
technogeekery
8-Aug-2016
8:29:07 AM
Not sure there will ever be a "style-guide" to guidebooks as such, but think you could do a lot worse than using the best of the current crop (Arapiles and Blue Mountain guides are my favourites in Aus) and then thinking how they could be improved.

I've heard good things about the Dolomites Rockfax too (and will buy it to give me a new area to dream about)

JamesMc
8-Aug-2016
6:34:41 PM
The next gen guidebook will consist of a 3D model of the routes generated from photography by a drone. Augmented reality view from any angle using a phone. Like Pokemon Go

Robbie
8-Aug-2016
7:14:02 PM
That's the one James. Rock on.
TimP
8-Aug-2016
9:19:23 PM
On 8/08/2016 JamesMc wrote:
>The next gen guidebook will consist of a 3D model of the routes generated
>from photography by a drone. Augmented reality view from any angle using
>a phone. Like Pokemon Go
>
It will also have GPS / altimeter route finding like Siri calmly whispering in your ear as you climb "In 2 meters take the second exit from the crack…"

JamesMc
9-Aug-2016
6:29:06 PM
On 8/08/2016 TimP wrote:
>On 8/08/2016 JamesMc wrote:
>>The next gen guidebook will consist of a 3D model of the routes generated
>>from photography by a drone. Augmented reality view from any angle using
>>a phone. Like Pokemon Go
>>
>It will also have GPS / altimeter route finding like Siri calmly whispering
>in your ear as you climb "In 2 meters take the second exit from the crack…"
Like!
kieranl
9-Aug-2016
8:23:58 PM
Unforunately because the GPS is a bit off because of a limited view of the satellites, it's giving you directions for Werribbee Gorge and you're at Arapiles.
simey
18-Aug-2016
12:02:31 AM
On 7/08/2016 robbie wrote:
>Yep Simey, they are all fantastic publications and a great resource for
>ALL who visit this world class crag.
>
>A question if I may. What do you consider the Pros and Cons of the Arapiles
>Selected Guides?
>
>Have a look at the following URL to see what I am on about.
>https://www.mountaineers.org/volunteers/leader-resources/publications-style-guide

Hey Rob,
Interesting to check out that link and see some of the recommendations that they list.

The main thing is to be consistent throughout whatever book you are compiling. But keep in mind that you sometimes need to 'break the rules' when representing a different size cliff to communicate information clearly.

Certain guidebook styles and designs work for some cliffs and not others (ie. North American style drawn topos work great for showing long granite and desert sandstone routes, but would be hopeless on Arapiles quartzite). That is why I am a bit dubious about a one size fits all template.

As for some pros and cons of the Arapiles guide...

Pros - I reckon you could probably find the cliff and climb you want to do fairly easily without being able to read English due to the use of various topos and maps.

The detailed descriptions gives you a better feel for each route and its dangers as opposed to a symbol or grade.

Most of the topos list the route/grades/stars on the actual topo so you don't have to flip through numerous pages in the guidebook to find out that info.

Cons - Not being able to speak English (or even failing to understand Australian humour) might mean you miss out on some of the nuances of the climb in the description.

I reckon we could almost go to a two star system in the Arapiles guide as there is not much difference between the two and three star routes, but traditionally it has always been three stars. (BTW, I hate 5 star guidebooks!)

I really like the Point Perpendicular guidebook. I thought that used some great elements that we didn't use in our Arapiles guide, in particular the spider web symbol for rarely repeated routes and a warning symbol with a few words describing in detail what the warning refers to.

Happy to talk about lots of other stuff (ie. colour coding) and whether it has merit or not (depends on the nature of the cliff and its routes).

Good luck!


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