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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 36
Author
Climbing protection for canyoning.
DMWdesign
30-Oct-2014
10:05:37 PM
On 30/10/2014 shortman wrote:
>What the f*ck is a hydrobot?

a descender, popular with canyoners - made by Kong

I personally find them a bit fast and not as easy to lock-off as a rack
DMWdesign
30-Oct-2014
10:08:59 PM
On 30/10/2014 Wendy wrote:
>.................................................making sure
>everyone has had a go at climbing in a more sedate environment beforehand.

That's a good idea Wendy - thanks
martym
31-Oct-2014
10:18:57 AM
On 30/10/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 30/10/2014 mikllaw wrote:
>>As Jim said, a weak dynamic device, a figure 8 in sport mode is perfect,
>>what do you use to abseil with?
>
>Sport mode and figure 8 in the same sentence? ~> This does not compute
>within my old fashioned brain.

When was the last time you climbed in Europe M9? That's all they use over there... If they use a device at all..

IdratherbeclimbingM9
31-Oct-2014
10:32:04 AM
On 31/10/2014 martym wrote:
>When was the last time you climbed in Europe M9? That's all they use over there... If they use a device at all..

I have not climbed there, so I am obviously out of touch.
;-)

freesolo
1-Nov-2014
2:43:42 AM
a 60 m 8.5 mm dynamic gives you more options than a 60 m 10.5 static. and is safer to fall on. don't know how thick your static rope is, but i personally don't recommend any climbing on them. even a 30 m 8.5 mm dynamic would be a better choice and doesn't weigh much.

with regard to your climbing level, Pedro at Araps is listed as a 10, i believe. have a go at that after a rain shower to see if you can make the moves. that may give you a better idea on how much more difficult a bit of water can make climbing.
Wendy
1-Nov-2014
8:16:24 AM
I don't think he's going to be any where near Araps, but it would be possible to rig a belay of bolts, bollards or trees at the top of a few things at York, Piddo or Boyce, chuck the rope down and top belay the person out with the skills and equipment DW suggests that he has. Angular Crack, Chimney and Wall, Abseil Slab and co, Snap, Crackle and Pop etc.
PDRM
1-Nov-2014
10:33:27 AM
On 1/11/2014 freesolo wrote:
>a 60 m 8.5 mm dynamic gives you more options than a 60 m 10.5 static. and
>is safer to fall on. don't know how thick your static rope is, but i personally
>don't recommend any climbing on them. even a 30 m 8.5 mm dynamic would
>be a better choice and doesn't weigh much.
>
>with regard to your climbing level, Pedro at Araps is listed as a 10,
>i believe. have a go at that after a rain shower to see if you can make
>the moves. that may give you a better idea on how much more difficult a
>bit of water can make climbing.

While wearing a wetsuit and crocs
Wendy
1-Nov-2014
11:23:51 AM
On 1/11/2014 PDRM wrote:
>On 1/11/2014 freesolo wrote:
>>a 60 m 8.5 mm dynamic gives you more options than a 60 m 10.5 static.
>and
>>is safer to fall on. don't know how thick your static rope is, but i
>personally
>>don't recommend any climbing on them. even a 30 m 8.5 mm dynamic would
>>be a better choice and doesn't weigh much.
>>
>>with regard to your climbing level, Pedro at Araps is listed as a 10,
>>i believe. have a go at that after a rain shower to see if you can make
>>the moves. that may give you a better idea on how much more difficult
>a
>>bit of water can make climbing.
>
>While wearing a wetsuit and crocs

and carrying a rucksack
DMWdesign
5-Nov-2014
4:20:59 PM
On 30/10/2014 Timfreddo wrote:

>
>Arathusa you probably want a couple more biners and maybe 2 or 3 slings
>for trees, belaying with minter os fine here too. As Owain said the crux
>of arathusa (except getting lost on walk in and out, very veauge track)
>is a 8m overhanging hand over hand up a very slippery waterfall, pretty
>much 2 or 3 pull ups with not much for feet.
>
Thanks again Timfreddo
you seem familiar with this canyon, so another question
If I were to take some dynamic rope, what length would I need?
I understand there are two pitches - a vertical, then a traverse
is there room for 4 people between the two pitches ?

I had a look at this video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWTdu1zj_qI



sbm
5-Nov-2014
8:33:24 PM
Go ask on the OzCanyons facebook group for notes, these Victorians probably still think we're talking about some gully at Arapiles.

Just chuck a reverso in the drybag if you're worried about belaying. You can bring a dynamic rope if you want but 1) you'll pretty much have to retire it afterwards and 2) static is actually much better to handle when it's wet.

You'll be fine, canyoners managed to do these climbs without incident and they all have hopeless technical skills.
patto
5-Nov-2014
9:58:18 PM
On 5/11/2014 sbm wrote:
>Go ask on the OzCanyons facebook group for notes, these Victorians probably
>still think we're talking about some gully at Arapiles.
>

I was going to object this dismissal of chockstone and Victorians. However looking back over the previous post I can see why it was said.

I would expect that most people climbing out of this canyon would be doing it on a static rope. You use what you have available.

However, the most important thing here isn't the choice of rope or equipment. It is having a competent and CONFIDENT person in the group to lead the climb. If you are all good scramblers then you'll find the climb easy. The issue is the exposure and keeping a cool head to climb it safely.
DaveN
6-Nov-2014
12:20:18 PM
Probably most canyoners use static ropes for these exits. For Mt Hay Canyon - the climbing section is very short - and bolted with fixed hangers. If you couldn't make the moves confidently - then you could always put slings on the bolts and climb up on those. The pitch is quite exposed.

If you take the Alpheus Canyon exit from Arethusa Canyon - the climbing is quite easy and not nearly as exposed. I think there are 2 - 3 short pitches plus a "tricky" bit in the creek (no pulling up overhangs or waterfalls if you follow the easiest route). It does involve a lot of wandering back and forth on ledges - to find easy bits up to the next level. This is both in the lower climbing section, and higher up - getting out of there creek. I have only been up this way once - and we were lucky that we had someone in the party that knew the way. I think we also carried a short dynamic rope for the climbing and some bolt plates (It has been re-bolted since our trip - with rings?)

As for using dynamic ropes in canyons - they are fine. When I started canyoning - the only ropes you could buy were dynamic - and that is what we used. I remember having a nice edelrid dynamic rope 9 mm and 45 m length - it lasted at least 15 years of very active canyoning use.

Dave

barefootbushman
6-Nov-2014
1:24:16 PM
I have done Butterbox numerous times. I did it with a 60m 10mm dynamic, and it was fine. Yes, you are more likely to get it stuck, and yes it can be a pain rapping down a wet, bouncy rope under a waterfall, but a fat static is not a whole lot different.

The climbing out of the canyon is actually very exposed, and deserves every bit of its 11 grades, especially when wearing a wetty and volleys.

Take a cheap dynamic dude! And practise a bit of climbing first.

Timfreddo
6-Nov-2014
3:12:29 PM
On 5/11/2014 DMWdesign wrote:

>Thanks again Timfreddo
>you seem familiar with this canyon, so another question
>If I were to take some dynamic rope, what length would I need?
>I understand there are two pitches - a vertical, then a traverse
>is there room for 4 people between the two pitches ?

We did arethusa with 2x30m 9mm static ropes. You could probably get away with 1 x50m, but wouldn't want much shorter...
I wouldn't recommend arethusa until you have done a fair few other canyons, or unless you have solid navigation skills.
On the entry we couldn't find a footpad from the end of the fire trail, so ended up going off track (for about 15min) to the left into and following the drainage into arethusa via 2 abseils, the first was on the left of the creek and has a sling, the 2nd (landing in arethusa canyon proper) had no sling so we found a suitable tree and rapped off that (25mish abseil).
On the exit the climb is easy to find, first bit has a bit of a tricky mantle onto a sloping dirt ledge to belay tree, the 2nd bit is a easy traverse with a tricky unprotected step in there somewhere. All pro is ring bolts. Belays are trees. There is room for 4 as you would take them off belay and they can wander around on the ledges the pitches finish on.
We looked at scrambling around on ledges above the canyon as DaveN says, but felt that despite easier climbing, the consequences were much higher if you slipped off. It's either dodgy (but easier) ledges, or the overhanging 6m waterfall (at least you will land in a deep pool if you fall...)

After you get out of alp hues canyon, there is a faiir bit of searching to find steep handlines at numerous small clifflines up to the ridge. Go right or left along the cliff line til you find the obvious handling spots.

Patto hits the nail on the head at the end of his post above about leader needing to be confident.

As for butterbox you need 2x 20m ropes (no shorter). Don't look at the climb at the end as a rock climb, look at it as survival scrambling. Do what you need to make it easier ie pulling/standing on bolts, hauling packs...
DMWdesign
6-Nov-2014
4:07:53 PM
On 6/11/2014 Timfreddo wrote:

>I wouldn't recommend arethusa until you have done a fair few other canyons,
>or unless you have solid navigation skills.

that's all good info - thank you
I've done about 50 canyons so far including Danae, so I feel confident about the canyoning and route-finding but needed some guidance as to the level of difficulty of the "climbing" side of things.

After the trip, I will report how it went
DMWdesign
23-Mar-2015
11:32:45 AM
On 6/11/2014 Timfreddo wrote:

..........Don't look at the
>climb at the end as a rock climb, look at it as survival scrambling. Do
>what you need to make it easier ie pulling/standing on bolts, hauling packs...

Thanks again Timfreddo for your advice, and here is some feedback.
Four of us finally came up from Melbourne last week and did Kanangra, Butterbox and Arethusa over 3 days.
We managed to survive the Arethusa and Butterbox climbs and for us your term “survival scrambling” was apt.
On Butterbox, one of us went first and belayed the others. We ran the abseiling rope directly through karabiners and free climbed both pitches using a karabiner on a couple of the belay plates as a handle. But it was comforting to have the rope. We pack-hauled both pitches.
On Arethusa, we free climbed the first pitch. On the second pitch we ignored the bolts and went further left, managed to flip the rope around a small tree and used an etrier to get up. The third pitch was very straightforward but we clipped into a safety line on the ledge to help bring people & packs around.
The climb out of Alpheus started via a 4m vertical HOH before the first pool/waterfall. This one I found hard but the etrier helped to get a leg up. Glad I brought the etrier! The route then generally zigzagged straight up via a well-defined track and further HOHs. The route, the initial part at least, bore little resemblance to the track notes on the Immortal Outdoors website and different to what was described in a Fat Canyoners report.

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 36
There are 36 messages in this topic.

 

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