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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 31
Author
Punks - glue hold.
geriroc
25/06/2014
8:07:41 AM
lately there have been ascents from punks from different climbers and we see videos and pictures in the net. most of the climbers talks about this big classic route after the have done it. but hardly anybody say something about this terrible glue hold(s) on it.

the first time i was on punks was in 87 just after Wolfgang climbed it, (i try the route at the time with Martin Scheel how boldet it) and i remember this crimp hold where it was so hard to clip the sling with the fixed nut and to make the next move after that.
I could not climb punks at that time but i came back, i think in 94 and i climbed it and i was so disappointed because this great route was not existing anymore.

I found this discussion on your page and thought i like to say something about that because Punks is such a classic and such a milestone and Wolfgang was allways a climber with big ethics.
There is really no question about it if this hold is artificial ore not.
The big embarrassing thing on the action from the person how destroyed Punks is, not only making the crimp bigger he all so close the next hold above, what was a hard shoulder move.

in my opinion is the best chip the sikka away and sombody will climb Punks free again some day. If you find the same old crimp under the sikka it would be the best, if not it will be maybe much harder but the route and Wolfgangs action will get the status back what it deserved.

greets from austria - gerhard hörhager
jdb
26/06/2014
10:37:00 AM
I don't even use the glued hold
Dave J
26/06/2014
10:26:37 PM
Hi Gerhard,
I did punks around the same time as you (94) but never tried it before the glue hold was installed. I always imagined trying to climb the route without the glue but, having spent a bit of time on it, its hard to imagine how this would be possible (or pleasant). Perhaps the climb would go without the hold but it is hard to imagine it ever being a great route after that...What is already a bouldery crux would become so extreme that the rest of the route would become irrelevant (which would be a shame).

As I understand it the glue was put there after the hold that was there crumbled away (which was possibly a chipped hold to replace an original bit rock that snapped in the first place... before Wolfgang ever tried it). Certainly by the time you took the glue off there wouldn't be much left. If you took away the glue you would have to do it assuming there was going to be nothing usable underneath.

If someone were able to climb the crux sequence without using the glue hold then I completely agree it would be the right thing to remove the glue (even if it turned the route into a one move wonder) but, until then, I feel the glue is probably best left where it is...there will be nothing underneath it but a mess.

Its unfortunate that the glue was put on top of the hold rather than nearby so now you would have to erase the current route to even see if there were an alternative (and the gluing up of the next hold was just a bizarre act).

kp
26/06/2014
11:48:39 PM
I heard Doug Mc from the blue mountains reglued the edge, when it fell off 2012 ish? Great thread anyhow.
ademmert
27/06/2014
8:31:35 AM
For better or worse the glued hold is part of the routes history.
And therefore i think leave it.

not that i have climbed it
maxdacat
27/06/2014
9:11:30 AM
Interesting history lesson but no doubt all of us have used the odd glued hold at some stage. To be honest that's not what really sticks (sorry) in the mind compared to the setting, moves, overall quality etc.
gfdonc
27/06/2014
9:52:31 AM
On 26/06/2014 jdb wrote:
>I don't even use the glued hold

Huh John? Without glue, how do you keep your grip on the shaft?
johny
27/06/2014
10:39:25 AM
I totally agree with Dave J. Look, pollitt is a nut. But he almost certainly did not glue over the good (chipped) crimp. There will be nothing left if the glue is removed. This will not restore Punks to it's original (chipped) state. Its going to be a total mess basically ruining it completely.

I have been trying it lately and yeah its weird. interesting history.As far as setting a precedent it is THE exception to the rule at araps so no need to get up in arms as far as that goes.

But I totally see gerhard's side. Its the same problem with many many routes that have had holds glued back on or that wear away over time.

Everyone knows that the way wolfie climbed punks is harder. And everyone knows that the glue hold is shit. But its part of the route, the history and it makes it that much more interesting. Its the only one like it in Araps out of 1000's of climbs. nuff said. leave the glue alone! (unless you accidentally break off a bit, then glue it back on please) :)


martym
27/06/2014
12:45:45 PM
On 27/06/2014 johny wrote:
>Everyone knows that the way wolfie climbed punks is harder. And everyone
>knows that the glue hold is shit. But its part of the route, the history
>and it makes it that much more interesting. Its the only one like it in
>Araps out of 1000's of climbs. nuff said. leave the glue alone! (unless
>you accidentally break off a bit, then glue it back on please) :)

I'm never going to get on punks - high grade climbing is outside my capabilities.
But this topic reminds me of a 300m 6b we climbed near Chamonix; it was the only sport route of that size under 7a.
around the middle of the route there was a blank section where someone had chiseled holds and steps - not just a bit of chipping; proper cut outs.
I was a bit disgusted at first , but then looked at the bolts, the lower offs, the chalk marks, and I thought - don't for one second think this is pure adventure. This is a consumer route equipped & documented for your pleasure. You don 'to want the steps - climb harder!

bw
27/06/2014
1:50:35 PM
On 27/06/2014 martym wrote:
>On 27/06/2014 johny wrote:
>>Everyone knows that the way wolfie climbed punks is harder. And everyone
>>knows that the glue hold is shit. But its part of the route, the history
>>and it makes it that much more interesting. Its the only one like it
>in
>>Araps out of 1000's of climbs. nuff said. leave the glue alone! (unless
>>you accidentally break off a bit, then glue it back on please) :)
>
>I'm never going to get on punks - high grade climbing is outside my capabilities.
>But this topic reminds me of a 300m 6b we climbed near Chamonix; it was
>the only sport route of that size under 7a.
>around the middle of the route there was a blank section where someone
>had chiseled holds and steps - not just a bit of chipping; proper cut outs.
>I was a bit disgusted at first , but then looked at the bolts, the lower
>offs, the chalk marks, and I thought - don't for one second think this
>is pure adventure. This is a consumer route equipped & documented for your
>pleasure. You don 'to want the steps - climb harder!

what was the route, marty?
martym
27/06/2014
7:59:21 PM
Lil Razmokets I think...

stugang
28/06/2014
10:17:46 AM
there were a few (posed) pics of wolfie published at the time of his ascent. Im pretty sure one of them published in Rock was him doing that move on the hold that turned into the bird bath.

It would be interesting to see the whole set of photos from that set as it is quite likely to include images of what the hold looked like at the time of the FA. I'm not sure who took the photos (Uli W? Heinz Z? Glen R?) but if anyone has connections (Gerhard - do you know them?) with the person who did take the photos it would be worth hitting them up to see if they have any shots of the original (chipped) hold.
dalai
28/06/2014
11:34:47 AM
Just checked through my old Rock Magazines as I recalled the Mountain Designs ad of Wolfgang on Punks you refer to stugang. Found it on the back page of the 1996 edition and scanned it for you.



Stugang
28/06/2014
2:32:49 PM
Thanks dalai that's the one. Though it was first in rock way earlier without all the MDs shit around it. I am right in thinking that that is the hold that became the birdbath he's crimping on?

So anyway it's a Heinz zac pic. Might make it hard to get copies of the pics Heinz rejected.
dalai
28/06/2014
2:47:36 PM
There is another photo in an article, but he is on the traverse below the birdbath hold.
dalai
28/06/2014
2:52:07 PM
Another photo found online. Standing on the hold in question.

dalai
28/06/2014
2:58:08 PM
Another slide from the same roll of film used by MD.


sliamese
30/06/2014
7:45:45 PM
theres also a feck load more friction on Araps stone when it has had a bazillion feets rubbing to and fro on it. maybe we should add some more glue to all the footholds on the rest of the route to make it more like it was when wolfgang climbed it?

But seriously, leave it. it provides shit loads more enjoyment the way it is and i think Dave hit the nail on the head. Things change and its not always something to be feared...

nmonteith
Online Now
30/06/2014
9:09:45 PM
Surely that photo is from a 1986 Rock mag not a 1996 mag. That is their old logo. When i worked for MDs in the mid 90s we had a different logo.
dave1962
30/06/2014
9:30:21 PM
On 30/06/2014 nmonteith wrote:
>Surely that photo is from a 1986 Rock mag not a 1996 mag. That is their
>old logo. When i worked for MDs in the mid 90s we had a different logo.

I would agree neil, I checked my rock magazines which only go back to dec 1989 and can't find the picture of wolfgang

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 31
There are 31 messages in this topic.

 

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