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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 4 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 87
Author
Abseiling tips, tricks, habits and advice

ajfclark
27-Aug-2014
4:31:48 PM
I was more pointing out that every time we abseil under calm conditions we're practising for when we're under pressure and that on that basis, most recreational climbers get a good deal of regular practise relative to the amount of under pressure abseiling they do.
One Day Hero
27-Aug-2014
5:36:17 PM
On 26/08/2014 jpo wrote:
>I only do abseiling

Get off our forum, you bum-first weeny! Your whole sport is the shit bit tacked onto the end of our sport, which we'd rather not do but sometimes have to.
TimP
27-Aug-2014
5:36:24 PM
Always use a handy way to remember your abseiling check list
Correct order; essential for every checklist
Remember all the stuff you need to check
Organise your check list in a handy to remember way in the correct order
Nemonic… a way to remember your checklist, especially when under pressure
Yeehaw — the thing to say as you step into the sickening void to quash that funny feeling there is something you didn't remember
Mnemonic; is how it's actually spelt
martym
27-Aug-2014
8:43:24 PM
On 27/08/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 26/08/2014 jpo wrote:
>>I only do abseiling
>
>Get off our forum, you bum-first weeny! Your whole sport is the shit bit
>tacked onto the end of our sport, which we'd rather not do but sometimes
>have to.

Oh yeah happy birthday (apparently) did you go somewhere interesting?
Your temperament was conspicuously absent for a while..
dalai
27-Aug-2014
9:24:12 PM
Was nice and quiet... OHD calm down. Save your rants for talk back radio where your quality comments would fit right in!
jpo
1-Sep-2014
10:53:14 PM
BFW here.

I'm thinking that abseiling as a sport in its own right is quite different to abseiling after a clinmb after reading this discussion.

If you are just abseiling you have some advantages over climbers. You can carry more gear for abseil use. I use some steel pieces and an industrial sling that would hold an elephant. If I can't set up a bomb proof anchor, I don't do it. Won't do it in the rain. Lots of chances to opt out that climbers may not have.

Don't like the mnemonic approach. You must understand the function of every component and KNOW that each is correctly set up before committing. For me, the mnemonic dumbs it down when it should be a deliberate effort of intellect.

Interesting that the fear of some climbers is of the utter dependence on the gear. I can't see the anchor failing or the rope breaking. I hope abseil devices don't break. While attached to the rope I feel protected from gravity. I reckon the riskiest part of sport abseiling is when working at the top of the cliff when not roped to something.

As for backups, I use two. A short French prusik loop below the device and attached to the leg loop. This sets up the basic abseiling motion. My right hand is extended to below the leg loop and is the main brake. My left hand rests above the prusik and slides it down as I descend. Anytime I want to stop I allow the the prusik to lock and I rest.

I also install a longer prusik (a Klemheist) above the device. Initially I make this loose so it won't grip. When I want extra security as in free hanging, I tighten the loop and make it ready to grip if I should slide. It also works to take my full weight if I wish. It's a bugger to unload (impossible to force). You have to transfer your weight to above the loop before you can loosen it.

Doing a free hanging abseil with these two backups is slow but secure. You develop a nice touch that keeps things flowing. The prussiks are lovely controls.

I think a big point of difference between sport abseiling and abseiling after a climb is that in the former the object is to be on rock, to be hanging out on the side of a boulder or slab. It's a great new way to see the bush. So you don't do it quickly. You stop to use binoculars, take a picture, make a phone call or just look around.

My abseiling journey started from reading Chockstone. I had to learn how to use ropes and harness to do a major tree lopping job that's taken me three years. And I've discovered the joys of scaling boulders and slabs, even if bum first.

So thankyou to whoever put the site together. The Guide and Tech Tips have been great for me. (But I won't touch the rap bolts I've found at various Vic sites you've mentioned.)

Cheers,
BFW.
One Day Hero
2-Sep-2014
5:25:51 PM
Touche.......about a T4, I reckon. Nice character development.

Miguel75
2-Sep-2014
7:17:55 PM
On 2/09/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>Touche.......about a T4, I reckon. Nice character development.

Does anyone remember the thread where the scale Damo is using is referenced??? Damo?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
2-Sep-2014
8:55:54 PM
On 2/09/2014 Miguel75 wrote:
>On 2/09/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>>Touche.......about a T4, I reckon. Nice character development.
>
>Does anyone remember the thread where the scale Damo is using is referenced???
>Damo?

Hereyago the Hero Universal Dangerousness Table (HUDT) scale...
peteclimbs
3-Sep-2014
11:47:47 AM
Just in relation to the question of whether it's better to put a prusik backup above or below the belay device, I observed first hand on the weekend one of the biggest potential issues with prusik above.

We were on Watchtower Crack when a couple where rapping down from Brolga. The first climber down the rope had a prusik backup above her ATC. At some stage early in the first rap it became weighted and she was unable to free it. She had a hell of a job getting it sorted. In the end she placed a longer prusik above the jam and managed to stand up in it enough to free the problem. It all took quite a while and gave her a fair work out by the looks of things.

phillipivan
3-Sep-2014
12:07:20 PM
Other than the fairly uncommon task of passing a knot in a rope, which is certainly not something that typically happens unexpectedly, is there any good reason for putting the prussic above the belay device?

My far and away preferred method is to extend the belay device off the harness with a sling, and if I'm using an autoblock, clip it to the belay loop.
martym
3-Sep-2014
2:52:35 PM
On 3/09/2014 peteclimbs wrote:
>Just in relation to the question of whether it's better to put a prusik
>backup above or below the belay device, I observed first hand on the weekend
>one of the biggest potential issues with prusik above.
>
>We were on Watchtower Crack when a couple where rapping down from Brolga.
>The first climber down the rope had a prusik backup above her ATC. At some
>stage early in the first rap it became weighted and she was unable to free
>it. She had a hell of a job getting it sorted. In the end she placed a
>longer prusik above the jam and managed to stand up in it enough to free
>the problem. It all took quite a while and gave her a fair work out by
>the looks of things.

You make it sound like you"witnessed" a disaster.
This could easily happen with a prusik below.
abseiler ignores prusik - gets it jammed in their device, needs to unweight belay... Gets a workout, fixes problem, continues.

Who hasn't ever had something go a little wrong abseiling?
peteclimbs
3-Sep-2014
9:04:55 PM
>You make it sound like you"witnessed" a disaster.
>This could easily happen with a prusik below.
> abseiler ignores prusik - gets it jammed in their device, needs to unweight
>belay... Gets a workout, fixes problem, continues.
>
>Who hasn't ever had something go a little wrong abseiling?

Nope, no disaster at all. I think I mentioned the climber in question got stuck for a while, got a work out and then got down. It was just an applied example of some of the theory that's been discussed previously in this thread. Personally I couldn't care how people chose to rap, very much their own decision, unless they happen to be simul-rapping with me in which case I'm a bit more interested.

BTW your "" make no sense at all.
martym
3-Sep-2014
10:13:04 PM
I apologize, where you wrote "observed" I read "witnessed"
Speed reading issue; mind leaps to conclusions.

In those terms it is far less dramatic. My fault.
Mike Bee
3-Sep-2014
10:58:36 PM
To be fair though, a prussik jamming tightly is far more likely when used above the device than below because when it is above it is loaded with full body weight. When below, it only jams with enough force to lock off the ATC. This can be a significant difference, and is why I use and recommend to friends a prussik below.

(Another extened ATC with prussik below clipped to belay loop user here!)
jpo
4-Sep-2014
12:33:45 AM
The below-device prusik needs to be very close to the leg loop. How does everyone attach the cord to the leg loop? A carabiner? Easy, but too long. It needs to be as small as a keyring. It has to be quick acting when inserting or removing the cord. Does any such device exist?
jpo
4-Sep-2014
12:54:06 AM
The above-device prusik gives assurance. It can hold your weight. It's a redundancy and that's good safety. You must expect it to sometimes lock. So you must know how to unlock it. That means practice under good conditions.
jpo
4-Sep-2014
1:25:24 AM
One more thing about prusiks. The guidance material doesn't tell you just how tricky these devices are.

First there are three types--standard, french and klemheist. These are different knots. I don't know what auto-block is. Is it a knot or a functional device?

The diameter of the cord is important and so is the diameter of the rope. The number of wraps is important--three, four or five makes a big difference.

I've found that the prusik device has to be tuned to perform well. Prusiks that work well you keep in your bag, You don't want to make them up from scratch at the top of a cliff.

Just some thoughts from a BFW.
crackalackin!
4-Sep-2014
1:56:40 AM
If you extend your device with a sling a carabiner is fine on the leg loop. Also, if not extending you can shorten the prussic with a knot.
Auto-block is the french.

phillipivan
4-Sep-2014
1:04:27 PM
If you extend the belay device there is no reason not to just put any autoblock you might be using on your belay loop.

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There are 87 messages in this topic.

 

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