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Grampians or Mt Arapiles for first time top rope

zensurfer

16-Apr-2013
10:27:17 AM

I posted a topic a while back about renting climbing shoes and I basically found that the nearest place in Melbourne is at Mt. Arapiles. I want to take a group of friends out for their first top roping experience and want to know what would be more suitable Mt. Arapiles or the Grampians.

I wanted to go to Weribee Gorge, but due to having to go all the way to Mt. Arapiles for shoes I want to take them to crags in that area for a weekend excursion.

I have all the gear to top rope off and want to know which place would be better for taking beginners. I have been to Mt. Arapiles before, but I went with someone who could lead climb. I understand that Arapiles has very few bolted routes and I guess I would have to use natural protection there for most of the climbs.

At Grampians there is more bolted routes.

Which place would be better to introduce my friends to climbing. Also which book do you recommend as well for picking out routes.

Thanks :D


nmonteith

16-Apr-2013
10:30:45 AM

Summerday Valley in the Grampians is the perfect place for teaching climbers on toprope. You will need a full trad rack to set up anchors though (no bolts). The only place I can think of that has bolts on semi easy grades to toprope from in the Grampians is Tribute Wall (near VD Land). I'm surprised one of the Melbourne gyms wouldn't rent you shoes?


ajfclark

16-Apr-2013
10:44:45 AM

Cliffhanger used to rent out shoes and helmets but no longer list it as a service on their website.

Might be worth trying The Rock in Geelong and perhaps Lactic Factory in Abbotsford?

If you do end up renting stuff from someone in Natimuk, Bushrangers Bluff has a lot of easy routes and is easy to set top ropes on. Again, it's all trad.

maxdacat

16-Apr-2013
10:57:13 AM

why drive 300 km to rent out shoes....just wear trainers like we all did "back in the day".


IdratherbeclimbingM9

16-Apr-2013
11:15:47 AM

On 16/04/2013 maxdacat wrote:
>why drive 300 km to rent out shoes....just wear trainers like we all did "back in the day".

A good point by maxdacat.

Experienced climbers can climb seemingly difficult climbs (that may not necessarily be so), in ordinary footwear, but inexperienced climbers won't be able to climb the same climb in the very best of footwear.
In my experience the only advantage 'proper' footwear gives to a newbie is a psychological one, as their poor technique surpasses any advantages they could gain from their shoes.

Conversely however, I think that reasonable technique can be acquired sooner rather than later if climbing in cheapo soft rubber soled runners for newbies, as they are forced to focus on how they place and use their feet to get the best out of their footwear.

I well remember when I bought and first used my first pair of 'proper' climbing shoes. The experienced climber I was with at the time led the first pitch (easy angled granite), and pretty much walked up the approach slab to where the climbing started in earnest. When it came to me seconding, I was greatly surprised when my new shoes wouldn't let me do the same!
It was only when I started applying technique, that I could negotiate that section!!

pecheur

16-Apr-2013
11:21:17 AM

I was going to post that for the price of renting shoes you could buy a pair of classic volleys. It's not like newbies are going to be doing edging routes ...

Then I had a nap.


Miguel75

16-Apr-2013
11:40:28 AM

If you're close to Melbourne just head to Werribee Gorge or the You Yangs and have your buddies wear sneakers.

Wendy

16-Apr-2013
1:01:38 PM

you can set up bushrangers with a long bit of set up rope just on bollards providing you know the basics of setting up an anchor. That'd be the easiest set ups I could think of - no bolted set up anchors anywhere. you also don't need shoes for most of the climbs there - sunny side is almost completely sub grade 10.


Pat

16-Apr-2013
7:57:44 PM

You could also set up a few slightly harder and smaller top ropes at Mitre Rock, but would agree with Bushrangers as the best. Both sides have a good range from absolutely easy doddles up to mid teens, with easy access to the top. Second the suggestion of using a setup rope on bollards.

Reluctant

17-Apr-2013
4:32:24 PM

Teaching my daughter. She's starting to lead at bushranger and summer day/wall of fools. Having done top rope there gives added confidence.
As for shoes, the curve in the base of shoes protects from damage to plantar fascia especially to beginners who don't warm up or flex their feet enough before climbing.


shortman

17-Apr-2013
5:23:37 PM

On 17/04/2013 Reluctant wrote:

>As for shoes, the curve in the base of shoes protects from damage to plantar
>fascia especially to beginners who don't warm up or flex their feet enough
>before climbing.

Fascinating. Did you make that up?

Reluctant

18-Apr-2013
10:03:04 AM

On 17/04/2013 shortman wrote:
>On 17/04/2013 Reluctant wrote:
>
>>As for shoes, the curve in the base of shoes protects from damage to
>plantar
>>fascia especially to beginners who don't warm up or flex their feet enough
>>before climbing.
>
>Fascinating. Did you make that up?

I see a circular discussion starting here. You don't believe me then ask me if its true. Here's an idea, google " plantar fascia treatment causes". Then read, learn, compare, and make your own mind up.
OR look at the arch of your foot and ask yourself why sport shoes support the arch and climbing shoes even more.
Did I make up the foot arch, shoe design, beginner lack of muscle conditioning. Must be a conspiracy.

martym

18-Apr-2013
12:22:35 PM

We were at Araps a few Christmas' ago - and some (out of shape) friends drove up from Ballarat.
We put them on Declaration Crag (the grade 5 scrambles) in sneakers and they loved it.
If your friends are reasonably strong - Mitre Rock & Plaque wall also have some pretty easy to reach anchor set ups.
Bushrangers is pretty much the ideal set up of course, you just need some decent slings for the chickenheads & enough cord to get the anchor over the lip.
However - at the grades you'll likely start with - for a first day out, don't worry about renting shoes!

One Day Hero

18-Apr-2013
12:27:33 PM

On 18/04/2013 Reluctant wrote:
>I see a circular discussion starting here. You don't believe me then ask
>me if its true. Here's an idea, google " plantar fascia treatment causes".
>Then read, learn, compare, and make your own mind up.
>OR look at the arch of your foot and ask yourself why sport shoes support
>the arch and climbing shoes even more.
>Did I make up the foot arch, shoe design, beginner lack of muscle conditioning.
>Must be a conspiracy.

So everyone who ever climbed in sneakers and/or ran around barefoot as a child has done themselves terrible damage......because only correctly designed footwear can save us from ourselves? Now, who could possibly hope to benefit from that idea?


shortman

18-Apr-2013
12:33:14 PM

On 18/04/2013 One Day Hero wrote:

>
>So everyone who ever climbed in sneakers and/or ran around barefoot as
>a child has done themselves terrible damage......because only correctly
>designed footwear can save us from ourselves? Now, who could possibly hope
>to benefit from that idea?

Um...let me think about that for a second....shoe makers?


The good Dr

18-Apr-2013
12:38:09 PM

On 18/04/2013 shortman wrote:
>On 18/04/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>
>>
>>So everyone who ever climbed in sneakers and/or ran around barefoot as
>>a child has done themselves terrible damage......because only correctly
>>designed footwear can save us from ourselves? Now, who could possibly
>hope
>>to benefit from that idea?
>
>Um...let me think about that for a second....shoe makers?

See what happens when people start to get influenced by Big Shoe. Big Shoe should be bought to task for the way they want to endanger our health with all their false advertising, dodgy research etc. Down with Big Shoe.


BoulderBaby

18-Apr-2013
6:45:43 PM

On 18/04/2013 Reluctant wrote:

>I see a circular discussion starting here. You don't believe me then ask
>me if its true. Here's an idea, google " plantar fascia treatment causes"

Pretty sure we're born with plantar fascia - it's definitely not caused by wearing rock shoes.
If you're talking about plantar fasciitis, it has a multitude of causes, however clinically, I think it'll be rare to say that a pair of aggressive/ flexible climbing shoes that are worn for a few minutes at a time are the sole (get it?!!) causing factors of it. If you have a bad bout of plantar fascitis, good luck getting your foot in a well fitting climbing shoe!!

>Then read, learn, compare, and make your own mind up.
>OR look at the arch of your foot and ask yourself why sport shoes support
>the arch and climbing shoes even more.
>Did I make up the foot arch, shoe design, beginner lack of muscle conditioning.
>Must be a conspiracy.


ajfclark

18-Apr-2013
7:18:41 PM

On 18/04/2013 BoulderBaby wrote:
>If you have a bad bout of plantar fascitis, good luck getting your foot in a well fitting climbing shoe!!

Or walking comfortably....

Reluctant

19-Apr-2013
3:33:42 PM

Easier than trout fishing.
And yes yes yes. Shoe companies do make false claims AND I wear them.
Plantar fasciitis is the inflammation of fascia ( group of muscles/ tendons in arch). I have suffered from pf and stress fractures in feet. High arch shoes prevent and relieve pf.
With a daughter who also does ballet who spends lots of time bending her foot around a medieval torture device and podiatrist bills coming out the wazoo I feel I am we'll placed to advise - GET THE RIGHT SHOES.


BoulderBaby

19-Apr-2013
8:53:57 PM

On 19/04/2013 Reluctant wrote:
>Easier than trout fishing.
>And yes yes yes. Shoe companies do make false claims AND I wear them.
>Plantar fasciitis is the inflammation of fascia ( group of muscles/ tendons
>in arch). I have suffered from pf and stress fractures in feet. High arch
>shoes prevent and relieve pf.
>With a daughter who also does ballet who spends lots of time bending her
>foot around a medieval torture device and podiatrist bills coming out the
>wazoo I feel I am we'll placed to advise - GET THE RIGHT SHOES.

I'm just being picky here, but planta fascia is just that, Fascia. Connective tissue. the sinue in meat. just thicker.

There are 28 messages in this topic.