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New Fees Sign in The Pines


cruze

16-Oct-2012
1:44:39 PM

Well maybe $2 a day would be all that was needed if everyone paid. When Max used to do his early morning rounds to wake you up to pay, the compliance was close to 100%. Surprise surprise, as soon as the powers that were deemed his firm but friendly presence to be superfluous (and probably falsely economic) you could count the number of tags on tents at Easter time on one hand.

The site system seems ballsed-up, but for every person that has an opinion on it there will be 100 that will not care because they'll never pay, even if the system is clear as day and affordable.

You're right the impact of any one single user on any of those facilities is trivial, but as you know it's the cumulative effect that causes the wear and tear. Don't know what you mean by the buildings not being the latest and greatest. Last time I checked, the Wimmera is drought prone, a new bore has recently been dug and yet the toilets continue to flush. Day users driving up and winding down the window just long enough to take a photo and smell the fresh air, before winding it up so the car doesn't warm up must be less than 1% of the imapct that climbers make.

So send your emails to council, I hope that they hear you, it seems the horse may have bolted. You might have a bigger impact by casually asking your mates whether they have paid the fees and taking 10 minutes at the end of the day to walk around the campsite (even toilet block) picking up people's rubbish.

kieranl

16-Oct-2012
1:52:19 PM

On 16/10/2012 cruze wrote:
>So send your emails to council, I hope that they hear you, it seems the
>horse may have bolted. You might have a bigger impact by casually asking
>your mates whether they have paid the fees and taking 10 minutes at the
>end of the day to walk around the campsite (even toilet block) picking
>up people's rubbish.
Council doesn't control the Pines (they wish they did) so I'm not sure why people would email them. Parks Victoria control Arapiles. I'll ask people on the advisory committee what they know about it.

maxdacat

16-Oct-2012
1:54:16 PM

On 16/10/2012 cruze wrote:
>Don't know what you mean by the buildings not being the
>latest and greatest. Last time I checked, the Wimmera is drought prone,
>a new bore has recently been dug and yet the toilets continue to flush.

cheers didn't know that. I would have thought pit toilets would make better sense in that area.

hero

16-Oct-2012
2:19:42 PM

too many arseholes for pit toilets


Doug

16-Oct-2012
2:55:47 PM

On 16/10/2012 hero wrote:
>too many arseholes for pit toilets
Gold!
And too many sniffling whingers for the amount of toilet paper provided too. With the increase in fees maybe they'll be able to afford more ...

Seriously though, without marked campsites it could be awkward for Parks Victoria to enforce this new regulation. However, a $2 per person charge has long been outdated. And back in the days when Max was doing his rounds, if you hadn't paid up it cost you an additional $2 for the night before, so that was a 100% surcharge for not doing the right thing.
The roads have all been graded (so much better for walking and riding the MTB now, let alone for those people who feel the need to drive a little way to access routes), a new well was bored out fairly recently and there are new toilets by the upper gums.
The $15 for six people is still half the price of camping at Camp IV in Yosemite and we don't have to worry about gun-toting park rangers ... yet: Camp IV

Dave_S

16-Oct-2012
3:21:15 PM

On 16/10/2012 Doug wrote:
>The $15 for six people is still half the price of camping at Camp IV in
>Yosemite

However the $15 for one person is 3 times the price of camping at Camp IV in Yosemite. A price increase from $2/person is certainly justified, but this crazy system, charging per group rather than per tent or per person, can't be a good way of going about it.


Doug

16-Oct-2012
3:49:07 PM

On 16/10/2012 Dave_S wrote:

>However the $15 for one person is 3 times the price of camping at Camp
>IV in Yosemite.
Fair point, Dave. I reckon though that singles will immediately seek out someone they can join on a site.

A price increase from $2/person is certainly justified,
>but this crazy system, charging per group rather than per tent or per person,
>can't be a good way of going about it.
I'd favour charging per person, especially as they don't have sites marked out. Something like $5 seems pretty reasonable to me. The problem with charging per tent is that it's not fair on one or two in a small tent paying the same as a mob in a huge tent.
If they had sites marked out and set limits for people and tents per site that might strike a balance, both for easing the impact on the environment and getting a reasonable return for Parks Victoria's infrastructure investment.

gfdonc

16-Oct-2012
4:10:47 PM

Actually now you mention it didn't they do a sensational job of that road at the base! Must have been that way for about 40 years. Superhighway now.

Justcameron

16-Oct-2012
4:22:37 PM

I would support an increase in fees applied per person (eg. to $4 or $5 per night.)

I love that they have graded the road around to the watchtower faces.

The new system is pretty ridiculous.
What do I pay if I come with more than 6 people in a vehicle? (eg. minibus)

Has anyone had a response to an email to parks Vic, or been able to speak to someone useful on the phone?

maxdacat

16-Oct-2012
4:27:31 PM

On 16/10/2012 Justcameron wrote:
>>I love that they have graded the road around to the watchtower faces.
>
That's been graded?....didn't seem that way in March this year. Quite rocky but easy enough for your average 2wd.

Justcameron

16-Oct-2012
4:31:55 PM

On 16/10/2012 maxdacat wrote:
>On 16/10/2012 Justcameron wrote:
>>>I love that they have graded the road around to the watchtower faces.
>>
>That's been graded?....didn't seem that way in March this year. Quite
>rocky but easy enough for your average 2wd.

Yep has been graded and fixed up recently. They've done a pretty good job.

martym

16-Oct-2012
4:53:51 PM

On 16/10/2012 cruze wrote:
>Mmmm... That sign (and the posts on this forum) raise a number of questions
>in my head as well.
>
>What is that money going to be used for - track maintenance, replanting,
>maintenance of the facilities (digging bores, tanks, cleaning, etc)?
>
>IF so then why do climbers feel that after spending $60-80 on fuel for
>the weekend (plus wear and tear on their car) that they can't shell out
>a few more dollars each in an effort to keep the Park looking reasonable.
>I am yet to meet a genuinely impoverished climber. In the main we're all
>just overeducated middle class types with far too much free time on our
>hands.

For 15 bucks I'd want the only flat spot in the site! Otherwise it's slopey, sun exposed dust bowls all round! Perhaps you could pay after you camp - depending on how many times you had to crawl back to the top of the tent?
And I've only ever once camped there with more than 4 people in group! (and we always paid)

I don't think anyone's objecting to paying for the campsite, it's the structure.
It was inevitable to change from $2 - if lucky $3; but it was more likely to be $5.
But this is a mess. Good to know there's an advisory committee; though are there any "non-locals" on the committee? ie. campers? dirtbags? germans?

Hugh

16-Oct-2012
6:36:52 PM

Emailed

dan_b

16-Oct-2012
8:44:25 PM

Sounds like a season pass is whats needed.


jackb

16-Oct-2012
9:22:10 PM

I have sent my email to both Parks and Tourism Victoria.

I think the price hike is not inline with community expectations and the climbing culture that has developed around Araps over the years due to the cheap cost. Yes it is expensive to maintain the grounds but in the scheme of things the cost is minor.

The extra cost will deter oversees climbers that come for long periods on a low budget. But, these climbers often return to Victoria at a later stage and throughout their lives on a much larger budget and make more significant economical contributions to Victoria. They should be doing all they can to encourage tourism in Western Victoria (lets face it its not a world class tourism destination). Tourism Victoria and Parks should be encouraging this culture not deterring people from it.

The cost will also deter young climbers on uni budgets from taking up the sport. These guys, like me, then return in the future and fill up our cars with $60 of petrol from the petrol station in Horsham.

In my view it is a short sighted decision to lift the pricing without enough community consultation and without seeking funding from other sources.

Any way - that's my 5 RMB.

kieranl

16-Oct-2012
9:42:28 PM

On 16/10/2012 martym wrote:
>But this is a mess. Good to know there's an advisory committee; though
>are there any "non-locals" on the committee? ie. campers? dirtbags? germans?
You didn't know there's an advisory committee? I'm not sure if they're still there but their names (? )and phone numbers) were on one of the notice boards for many years. There's been no excuse for not knowing who they are and how to contact them.

jrc

16-Oct-2012
10:25:10 PM

so was the fee rise in consultation with the advisory committee ?

Anyway we were there a few weeks back. Could not leave any fees because there were no envelopes. So as the $15 sign wasn't up i presume I should send a cheque to P Vic my $2 per night.

martym

16-Oct-2012
11:12:03 PM

On 16/10/2012 kieranl wrote:
>You didn't know there's an advisory committee? I'm not sure if they're
>still there but their names (? )and phone numbers) were on one of the notice
>boards for many years. There's been no excuse for not knowing who they
>are and how to contact them.

Sorry Keiran, Sydney based climber, so occasional visitor only (of course, occasional visitors would make up a sizeable minority of the campsite users surely?).
I assumed there would be an advisory committee or something the like...
But obviously this price hike was a) done with out advice or b) the advisory committee had no influence over it, which is a shame.

Access T CliffCare

17-Oct-2012
7:21:17 AM

Writing this from my hotel in Marrakech and about to start the long haul back tomorrow morning to london and then Oz, so won't write much at the mo as tired nd hungry. Along with everyone else I dont agree that the campsite fees situation is a workable one although I am not sure how and if they will be enforcing it. What I do know though from conversations over the years is that Araps campers were a lucky bunch - those $2 person a night fees were never really official. It was always supposed to be the same as the other parks as per the price noted now. A forward thinking person years ago thought this would be hopefully a better way of recouping the fees. An inspection by PV management recently discovered the cheaper fees. I will look into this more upon my return but I think that the $2 fees were the unofficial ones unfortunately. Defined camp sites? If anyone has read the Araps feasability study you will see that defined sites are in there. While not everything in the study is necessarily going to go ahead, some of those recommendations will be taken on board. To think that Araps campgrounds are never going to change - highly unlikely.
I'm really tired and hungry now - speak more when I'm back in Oz

Cheers
Tracey


ado_m

17-Oct-2012
3:24:56 PM

Based email below though has more impact if it is customised. Alan is the ranger in charge I understand, haven't established if any relation to Darryl.

----------------------

info@parks.vic.gov.au

COMPLAINT: Camp fees - Arapalies - Attention: Alan Braithwait - Ranger in charge

Dear Alan

I am emailing to express my disappointment at Parks placing the sign below at Mt Arapalies.

Mt Arapalies is a unique and special place, well loved for its “dirtbag” culture, reasonable camp fees and inclusive culture.

$15 a night is unrealistic in the context that many people who attend have limited funds, are long term residents and individual campers cf groups of flushed campers in flash campervans.

A policy and sign like threatening disproportionate penalties seriously undermines the culture of Arapalies.

The lack of consultation and inappropriateness of the system is also very disappointing.

Can you please reconsider this decision and advise me in writing of the course of action taken by Parks?

Please do not mess with Arapalies, it is a special place!

Thanks

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