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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 4 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 71
Author
The Pines Campground at Araps - What's happening!

mattwho
21-Nov-2014
10:21:44 AM
What's the wish list of desirable features for new tree plantings?

I'd start with the following:

- Fast growing
- Offers considerable shade
- Not prone to dropping limbs
- Can be pruned to enable camping under if needed
- Doesn't self seed/spread to unwanted areas

While local flora like the native pines sounds great they don't fufill the above list. Maybe they would be good as a complimentary planting.
Karl Bromelow
21-Nov-2014
9:57:38 AM
I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I am genuinely curious and eagre to be educated. Is it true that the current pines are a more significant fire risk than native species? Also, is the fact that the ground immediately below the pine needle carpet is rendered infertile and unsuitable for the re growth of native species a problem if we are talking about an area to be used for setting up tents were minimal vegetation is preferred? What is the total area of ground covered by the pines compared to the unsealed roads and tracks around the mount which allow access but prevent growth of native flora? Lastly, and again I am keen to be given the facts by those in the know, have the pines invaded the rest of the park in damaging numbers? I haven't noticed it but I haven't honestly been looking for it. The wider area (millions of acres) surrounding the mount is of course almost entirely devoid of anything native, including Homo sapiens, so I can certainly understand the desire to protect or even restore wherever possible.

kieranl
21-Nov-2014
10:13:49 AM
On 21/11/2014 Karl Bromelow wrote:
>I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I am genuinely curious and eagre
>to be educated. Is it true that the current pines are a more significant
>fire risk than native species? Also, is the fact that the ground immediately
>below the pine needle carpet is rendered infertile and unsuitable for the
>re growth of native species a problem if we are talking about an area to
>be used for setting up tents were minimal vegetation is preferred? What
>is the total area of ground covered by the pines compared to the unsealed
>roads and tracks around the mount which allow access but prevent growth
>of native flora? Lastly, and again I am keen to be given the facts by those
>in the know, have the pines invaded the rest of the park in damaging numbers?
>I haven't noticed it but I haven't honestly been looking for it. The area
>surrounding the mount is of course almost entirely devoid of anything native,
>including Homo sapiens, and I can certainly understand the desire to protect
>or even restore wherever possible.
>
re education : first, read some of the links in my post earlier this morning. No point me giving my interpretation as it'll be done better in those.

As to pines invading the park : they did spread and used to be chopped down when discovered.

The area occupied by the campground is hardly relevant. There are some inherent impacts because of people camping there - compaction, service buildings, roads etc. Are radiatia pines necessary for camping? No. Is it a state park? Yes. Is radiata a weed? Yes. OK - don't plant them at Arapiles, plant something that works but is more suitable.

I am a bit dumbfounded at the energy people put into defending these things.
Karl Bromelow
21-Nov-2014
10:30:57 AM
Don't be dumbfounded Kieran. I wasn't defending the trees. I did read some of your links but couldn't see the answers to all of my questions therein. I thought somebody might have a quicker answer for me. Like "yes" or "no" to the fire risk thing. It's clearly something you are passionate about. I wish you well.
Old_Man
21-Nov-2014
3:46:49 PM
The Wimmera is getting drier and hotter. It now makes no sense to chop down existing trees, if it ever did, because they're very hard to replace with anything else. If exotic pines spread at all last century, they certainly won't in present conditions - even mature pines are struggling to survive. The point is, how to revegetate? Conditions are now so dire that just putting in a few seedlings and pissing on them will give very slow & uncertain results. I'm trying to sound optimistic here: look at what's left of those on the track up to the Pharos. If there is an answer, it includes species selection, ground preparation, large numbers (of trees & volunteers), persistence, and maintenance. There used to be a saying, it never rains at Arapiles ...
Colg
21-Nov-2014
8:52:16 PM
I remember stu planting and watering a heap of seedlings in the mid 90s all dead now.

Superstu
24-Nov-2014
4:31:37 PM
On 20/11/2014 patto wrote:
>On 20/11/2014 kieranl wrote:
>>They are weeds. Pure and simple. That's your answer.
>
>How are they weeds now? They seem to have been perfectly fine and suitable
>at the pines for 50 years. They weren't a weed when there were planted.
> They haven't been a weed to the hundreds of thousands of climbers who
>have camped under them.
>
>When did they become a weed all of a sudden?
>
>A weed is a plant considered undesirable in a particular situation. (which
>is the common definition and that of wikipedia)

Here we are talking about radiata pine as an environmental weed, one that can disperse seedlings into the surrounding bush, and once established can outcompete native plants, reducing habitat for native animals and reducing biodiversity. Arapiles is unique not just because of the groovy climbing, but its an island of significant native bushland too.

From the Weeds of Australia database:
Impacts
Radiata pine (Pinus radiata) is regarded as a significant environmental weed in Victoria and South Australia, and as an environmental weed in New South Wales, the ACT, Tasmania, Queensland and Western Australia. It is actively managed by community groups in South Australia, Victoria and the ACT, and in listed as a priority environmental weed in three Natural Resource Management regions.
It is considered a pest plant that must be controlled in one state so far.


There are plenty of plantations of Pinus radiata in the district but I see no need to go and plant some inside the park when there are perfectly suitable native species available. Casuarinas for example make fantastic camp sites, providing shade, soft needles on the ground, and make a lovely sound in the wind. They tend to like watercourses so the leaking tank, dumped washing up water and midnight ablutions should keep them going.

Wendy
27-Nov-2014
9:40:42 AM
I can't believe people are carrying on about pines again ... It's a state pk. they are a weed. they were planted in the 30s when no one had any idea about this sort of thing. Now they do. They may not appear to have been a major weed at araps, but they clearly have escaped willy nilly from plantations just south of here. pines plantations have discovered that they also trash the soil so much that you can't even grow a 3rd generation of pines on them. It's not going to happen. Get over it.

Everyone wants fast growing and shady. Heard about local eucalypt species recently? Or the larger native acacias? Sheokes also bound along at a great rate although I can't recollect if they naturally occur in the park. Yes, I know, someone will say eucalypts drop limbs. They are also one of the most common species of trees in Oz. They are abundant at campsites across the country. People camp under them all the time. I'm probably not putting myself out on a limb saying that driving to the crag is many times more risky than camping under a gum tree. In fact, per people nights camping under gum trees compared to people days climbing, i reckon the camping has way less accidents (from falling limbs at least) too - a gazillion non climbers camp under gum trees as well.

The other thing is, stop carrying on about it on the internet and do something. Next May/June, organise a planting. Yes you will have to negotiate with PV/AAC/FOA and no you won't get to plant radiata pines. Organise regular waterings from October onwards. The native pines in the pines are doing so well (for their species and the conditions) because friends of arapiles and all the school kids Lou can hound into helping have looked after them. The acacias in the top left are doing fine all on their own because they are much easier to establish. If we had planted eucalypts at the time as well, they'd already be small shady trees ...
access t CliffCare
27-Nov-2014
3:21:07 PM
The campground and tree issue was discussed at length last monday at the Arapiles Advisory Group meeting where we met at the park. This is moving forward with tree species being whittled down and the goal deadline is for the next planting season next year. This will be happening. We are all determined that decisions and moving forward with it need to occur. We have discussed putting a survey together so that those who use the park can contribute their thoughts. Lots of details to work out but there will be work days that people will need to be involved in and depending on funds and grants, there may be donations required to get this finally happening. I'm sure that some people won't be happy with the final decisions but like most things, there are lots of perspectives to take on board and finding a middle ground sometimes takes a while. I think though that for the most part, the choices that will be made will serve most people.
Once we get a survey sorted, the link will be put here for your contribution. Please continue to be interested. :-)

Cheers,
Tracey
access t CliffCare
11-May-2015
3:00:47 PM
I have started a new topic re a survey on The Pines campground that I am asking for feedback on . See here http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=1&MessageID=126365&Replies=0

Cheers,

Tracey
maxdacat
11-May-2015
3:31:10 PM
On 27/11/2014 Wendy wrote:
I'm probably not putting myself out on a limb

and

On 27/11/2014 access t CliffCare wrote:
tree species being whittled down



Both puns intended I hope :p

 Page 4 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 71
There are 71 messages in this topic.

 

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