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OT: Plebiscite


billk

22-Jun-2011
1:39:00 PM

On 22/06/2011 evanbb wrote:
>On 22/06/2011 maxdacat wrote:
>>All you're saying is let's pay more for our energy....I for one disagree
>>with that proposition.
>
>No, I want something in return. I want to pay more for energy that does
>not release as much carbon dioxide. Does that make sense?

Yes it does.


Doug

22-Jun-2011
2:19:14 PM

On 21/06/2011 TonyB wrote:
>Our government may soon ask you whether you want more taxes. Do you really
>want a carbon tax ?
NIce try. Despite phrasing your so-called plebiscite in such a one-sided manner ("Yes. Tax me please. I love taxes) most of the people who look at Chockstone seem to understand the reality of climate change and the need to make a start to turn things around

maxdacat

22-Jun-2011
2:56:44 PM

Part of that reality Bruce is that Australia's emissions are a drop in the ocean when compared to those of the rest of the world especially China. Post Copenhagen, no global consensus for action exists so unilateral measures are futile. New Zealand is now considering scaling back their own ETS by reconsidering the planned inclusion of agriculture and the doubling of the carbon price.

widewetandslippery

22-Jun-2011
3:20:02 PM

What direct benefit does a carbon tax give me? I am not interested in science unless, it tells me extra tax makes my life better at least $4$ in 2
years

satan

22-Jun-2011
3:20:53 PM

Bolivia just introduced Rights for Mother Nature. I see no problem with unilateral action if you're right.

What's Australia's carbon output per capita, compared to China and say, Nigeria?

spicelab

22-Jun-2011
3:23:25 PM

maxdacat

22-Jun-2011
3:35:04 PM

I don't think the Chinese could care less about what we do. They are mainly interested in what we have to dig out of the ground.

spicelab

22-Jun-2011
3:38:55 PM

On 22/06/2011 maxdacat wrote:
>I don't think the Chinese could care less about what we do. They are mainly
>interested in what we have to dig out of the ground.

So is Peter Hartcher making stuff up:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/stealthy-moves-of-the-predator/2007/05/31/1180205424567.html

maxdacat

22-Jun-2011
3:53:00 PM

So a newspaper in China in 2007 points out Australia's higher per capita emissions. Hardly a big deal. If we stopped exporting coal and iron ore tomorrow and shut down our power stations, China would still be on track to massively increase their emissions.

As Kevin Rudd so tastefully put during Copenhagen "those Chinese rat f*ckers are trying to rat f*ck us".

bones

22-Jun-2011
3:54:39 PM

On 22/06/2011 maxdacat wrote:
>Part of that reality Bruce is that Australia's emissions are a drop in
>the ocean when compared to those of the rest of the world especially China.
> Post Copenhagen, no global consensus for action exists so unilateral measures
>are futile. New Zealand is now considering scaling back their own ETS
>by reconsidering the planned inclusion of agriculture and the doubling
>of the carbon price.

Arrrrrrrg! The "why should we do anything when no one else is doing anything" argument is an absolute load of shiiiite. Small countries can influence the world. Hungary started the revolution that lead to the dismantling of the USSR. The EU started with a treaty between France and West Germany. There are millions of examples of small actions starting global revolutions or shaping history.

maxdacat

22-Jun-2011
4:14:12 PM

By the same token the need for politicians to "just do something" is a "load of shiiiiite". Anyway I wouldn't argue the EU is necessarily a good good thing. They can't even get the accounts signed off and their version of the ETS was subject to massive rorting. Their renewable energy targets and related impact on food prices have probably done more harm than good for the world's poor.


Eduardo Slabofvic

22-Jun-2011
4:20:37 PM

On 22/06/2011 Doug Bruce wrote:
>On 21/06/2011 TonyB wrote:
>>Our government may soon ask you whether you want more taxes. Do you really
>>want a carbon tax ?
>NIce try. Despite phrasing your so-called plebiscite in such a one-sided
>manner ("Yes. Tax me please. I love taxes) most of the people who look
>at Chockstone seem to understand the reality of climate change and the
>need to make a start to turn things around

Would it work better if the wording was changed to "Yes, tax the living daylights out of me" or "No, roger me savagely with a wad of rusty barbed wire instead".

Who can remember "No Dams"?

hipdos

22-Jun-2011
4:22:42 PM

You've missed the point about 6 times in a row

hipdos

22-Jun-2011
4:23:18 PM

Maxdacat

maxdacat

22-Jun-2011
4:29:43 PM

Tasmania gets most of its power from hydro so obviously they have some dams, which is a good thing or a bad thing depending which green prism you view it through.

maxdacat

22-Jun-2011
4:40:10 PM

On 22/06/2011 hipdos wrote:
>You've missed the point about 6 times in a row

What point have I missed? All i've done is explain why I don't think a carbon tax is a good idea for which I've been (effectively) called a "moron". The whole point of the thread was to stimulate discussion about the proposed tax and its implications so I don't think I am missing anything.


Eduardo Slabofvic

22-Jun-2011
4:46:25 PM

On 22/06/2011 maxdacat wrote:
>Tasmania gets most of its power from hydro so obviously they have some
>dams, which is a good thing or a bad thing depending which green prism
>you view it through.

Not the point I was making, but no big deal.

maxdacat

22-Jun-2011
4:47:03 PM

On 22/06/2011 Duncan wrote:
>On 22/06/2011 maxdacat wrote:
>>Is that all you've got? Do you actually have anything of substance (ie
>>not personal insults) to contribute?
>
>It's an entirely valid question, given your comment in this and other
>threads.

I'm not sure what other threads you're talking about, so why don't you provide details? I can't recall ever calling anyone a moron on here. Real life maybe.


Gavo

22-Jun-2011
4:53:24 PM

Is the OP the same person who stated in another climate related thread that ocean levels have remained unchanged for the last 50 years?

uwhp510

22-Jun-2011
4:55:19 PM

On 22/06/2011 maxdacat wrote:
>BLAH BLAH (liberal party denialist propaganda) BLAH BLAH

On 22/06/2011 Everyone else wrote:
>(Concise rebuttal)

On 22/06/2011 maxdacat wrote:
>Ah-ha but I bet you haven't considered this (unrelated tangent subject designed to divert attention from previous rebuttal)

There are 170 messages in this topic.