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Bolting in the Warrumbungles


nmonteith

9-Jun-2011
11:48:45 AM

On 9/06/2011 MichaelF wrote:
>So safety is a justification of a second descent route off the bluff?

err Yes. The difference between a short route and a long route is that you can get caught out in bad weather when the start of the day looked fine. I've heard first hand stories about climbers being trapped on the summit in a snow storm and they had to bivi overnight. Apparently the summit was a frozen sheet of ice (??) and they couldn't walk around.

I actually don't like the idea of rap belays on Lieban or Cornerstone - but I can see the attraction of a rap route down that side of the mountain.

MichaelF

9-Jun-2011
11:58:57 AM

Sounds character building ;) Personally I have made the trip up to the top camp and not climbed due to the weather conditions

But where does it stop Neil? Is the 2011 'bungles safety audit now complete?

What about retreat from the end of the traverse on FOTP in the event of conditions you describe?


nmonteith

9-Jun-2011
12:07:35 PM

On 9/06/2011 MichaelF wrote:
>But where does it stop Neil? Is the 2011 'bungles safety audit now complete?

Well, somewhere on these forums people were discussing adding an additional top rap anchor to Belugory Spire so you could reach the current top one without tripping over on the edge whilst scrambling down to it. No one expressed any disagreement to that one from memory?

>What about retreat from the end of the traverse on FOTP in the event of
>conditions you describe?

You're right it does open a can of worms.

gfdonc

9-Jun-2011
12:36:59 PM

On 9/06/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>On 9/06/2011 MichaelF wrote:
>>What about retreat from the end of the traverse on FOTP in the event
>of
>>conditions you describe?
>
>You're right it does open a can of worms.

Yes if this approach was justified anywhere it would be there. See http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=2&MessageID=3588&Replies=28 for the reasons.

Nevertheless I'm not advocating drilling holes in case people have to bail. While I don't agree with typecasting cliffs as 'wilderness' (there's a guidebook and hut, so forget that) I do think that Simey's view of "you got yourself into this mess, so get yourself out of it" is valid.

When on that trip we bought a cheap radio so we could tune into the weather updates each morning. An Internet connection at Balor Hut would probably prevent more epics that a few bolts.


Eduardo Slabofvic

9-Jun-2011
12:46:17 PM

On 9/06/2011 gfdonc wrote:
>I do think that Simey's view of "you
>got yourself into this mess, so get yourself out of it" is valid.
>

Just like the bolted belay on Dribble because people may not be able to manage their gear?


kuu

9-Jun-2011
12:59:18 PM

On 9/06/2011 gfdonc wrote:
> An Internet connection at Balor Hut would probably
>prevent more epics than a few bolts.
>
Yes, because then people wouldn't need to actually go climbing at all, they could stay in Balor Hut and just talk about it on Chockstone. No epics, no forced retreats, no danger. No point? ;-)


nmonteith

9-Jun-2011
1:01:47 PM

My internet connection is in my pocket. Works fine in the 'Bungles - even 8 pitches up.

simey

9-Jun-2011
1:17:17 PM

On 9/06/2011 Eduardo Slabofvic. wrote:
>On 9/06/2011 gfdonc wrote:
>>I do think that Simey's view of "you
>>got yourself into this mess, so get yourself out of it" is valid.
>>
>
>Just like the bolted belay on Dribble because people may not be able to
>manage their gear?

Well given that The Dribble...
- was not a renowned adventure classic unlike the routes being discussed in the Warrumbungles.
- has bombproof gear throughout its length until that particular belay (which comes at the end of a 50m pitch of sustained climbing at the grade, where grade 10 climbers might be pretty short on gear).
- is a recommended route for relative beginners to lead.
- was completely ignored and the first pitches unclimbable until I spent a few days checking it out and cleaning it.

If you want to put the time and effort in to unearth some mega-classic grade 11s, then I'll be the last to complain if you choose to leave them bolt-free.

gfdonc

9-Jun-2011
3:19:36 PM

On 9/06/2011 simey wrote:
>If you want to put the time and effort in to unearth some mega-classic
>grade 11s, then I'll be the last to complain if you choose to leave them
>bolt-free.

Sounds like the Kuu principle might apply in this case ..

Fish Boy

9-Jun-2011
3:42:57 PM

Remind me why you placed 2 pitons on watchtower crack? Its very tempting to pinch them to add to my rack, ill leave the original of course...


ajfclark

9-Jun-2011
3:57:19 PM

The rationale is here: http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=1&MessageID=18515 (Simey's first post).


Eduardo Slabofvic

9-Jun-2011
4:30:32 PM

On 9/06/2011 Fish Boy wrote:
>Remind me why you placed 2 pitons on watchtower crack? Its very tempting
>to pinch them to add to my rack, ill leave the original of course...

That's because I can see that route out my bedroom window, whereas I'd have to drive interstate to do the routes at the Warrumbunles.

MichaelF

9-Jun-2011
5:33:18 PM

On 9/06/2011 gfdonc wrote:
>On 9/06/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>>On 9/06/2011 MichaelF wrote:
>>>What about retreat from the end of the traverse on FOTP in the event
>>of
>>>conditions you describe?
>>
>>You're right it does open a can of worms.
>
>Yes if this approach was justified anywhere it would be there. See http://www.chockstone
>org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=2&MessageID=3588&Replies=28
>for the reasons.

Thanks for that link gfdonk - it is a great story with which to make my point. Imagine if there was a nice shiny rap anchor out there when the storm hit with the knowledge of another 50m down and then the deck.....it would have to be very, very tempting in those conditions with all that still above.

Instead they got themselves together and pushed on....to quote "Brilliant. It was 8:15pm, we had spent 12 hours on the wall. We made it. Hugs."

If you've got it get Simon Carters 1998 'Rockclimbing in Australia' out and read the preface to the 'bungles section written by AJ Brown. I reckon that captures the spirit of the place nicely

simey

9-Jun-2011
5:41:59 PM

On 9/06/2011 Fish Boy wrote:
>Remind me why you placed 2 pitons on watchtower crack? Its very tempting to pinch them to add to my rack, ill leave the original of course...

Why don't you go and remove them? Obviously you won't have any problem sleeping soundly with the knowledge that you have helped create a genuinely dangerous belay on such a popular route.

Fish Boy

11-Jun-2011
9:56:38 PM

How many deaths so far simon, or are you being subjective? Safe options are there. I could really use some more arrows, are they stubby or will i need to chop em?

simey

12-Jun-2011
1:28:30 AM

On 11/06/2011 Fish Boy wrote:
>How many deaths so far simon, or are you being subjective? Safe options
>are there. I could really use some more arrows, are they stubby or will
>i need to chop em?

I'm over the shit talk. If you feel strongly about something (like I did) then act on it. I'm sure your conscience won't have any problem with ripping out anchors from a relatively poor belay on a mega-classic route and then re-using them to nail your way up some mossy shit at Buffalo.

Fish Boy

14-Jun-2011
10:34:18 AM

Decided against it. I'm moving to BC in 6 weeks for good, no need for me to push my opinions on people, and no more mud bashing at Buff!

drdeviousii

14-Jun-2011
11:49:00 AM

You are moving to the land of bolted belays & mud & moss. Are you planning to steal belay anchors from the Squish classics as well?

Fish Boy

14-Jun-2011
12:17:56 PM

For sure!


Doug

14-Jun-2011
1:38:02 PM

On 9/06/2011 Eduardo Slabofvic. wrote:
>On 9/06/2011 gfdonc wrote:
>>I do think that Simey's view of "you
>>got yourself into this mess, so get yourself out of it" is valid.
>>
>Just like the bolted belay on Dribble because people may not be able to
>manage their gear?
Not really a valid comparison. Two completely different situations. However, given that there was/is a rat's nest of tat at that particular belay, indicating that people frequently retreat at this point for one reason or another, why shouldn't that retreat be via a more permanent, safer, easier to use and access station?
From what I can gather, there is no effect on the actual climbing. Or have I misread this? I'm hoping to do the route on my way home to Tassie and don't anticipate any difficulties completing it, so I guess I'll get a better look at the issue then if the weather gods are kind.

There are 168 messages in this topic.