Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Author

caving and canyoning rope

tariadamar

2-Oct-2011
8:44:12 PM

gday i am looking for a caving and caynoning rope and just have a few questions. i have not done much caynoning or wet caves and just want a little more info befor ei buy.(i am lined up to do a couple of caynoning courses nest year)
* which rope do you recomend and use.
* i was looking at this rope http://bluewaterropes.com/Mobile/QRDisplay.asp?PKey=139P
* does the diameter of a rope affect the abbility of a rope when wet. (like does a skinny rope operate with gear as a thicker dry rope would)
* would it be better to get a proper caynon rope and if so what is the difference in the rope.

any other help you could offer would be great thankyou kieran.

patto

2-Oct-2011
11:54:40 PM

If it is going to be used wet consider a rope that floats.

http://www.climbinganchors.com.au/products/Tendon-Grand-Canyon-10.0-60m.html

One Day Hero

3-Oct-2011
12:49:21 AM

On 2/10/2011 tariadamar wrote:
>
>any other help you could offer would be great thankyou kieran.

Caving and Canyoning sit waaaay down the pecking order from climbing. If you can take care of yourself at a cliff, you won't need to do a course to be ok with these lesser activities. Don't worry about specialist gear, its wank, I've only ever used my clapped out old climbing ropes for canyoning. The driest dry rope in the world will still be wet after you drop it in a creek.

My standard canyoning rope is the 50m 11mm climbing rope which I bought 2nd hand in the 90's and climbed on until it was too shit for lead falls....plenty strong enough for abseiling though.

I've tried using an 8mm climbing rope. This made both the walk-out up the hill and the abseils much quicker.........maybe a cord that skinny is not ideal (would suck a giant bag of dicks to have to prussik up a soaked 8mm in a waterfall, if it happened to get stuck)

sbm

3-Oct-2011
1:40:53 AM

A wet sandy fuzzy static is going to be a lot slower than a new dry static. For canyoning plain 9mm static is fine, the Tendon ones off the spool that Steve at climbinganchors sells are good. For caving I guess you could go up to 11mm, I reckon you could get away with 9/10mm if you're always using rope protectors. Depends what sort of caving as well I guess.

If you wanna be fancy get one of those bright flouro canyoning polyamide (?) ropes that float, they are fantastic. http://www.climbinganchors.com.au/products/Tendon-Grand-Canyon-10.0-60m.html

The main challenges in canyoning are 1) not being a stupid and going when large hailstorms are forecast 2) remembering to bring spare tape and a knife in case the anchors are rotting bits of string and 3) having a wetsuit warm enough that you're still thinking straight so as to not screw up the minimal navigation that is required.

Jayford4321

3-Oct-2011
3:05:12 AM

polyamide ropes do not float, I think you must mean polypropylene rope !
aramide ropes are good at resisting heat,400 degrees plus, but absorb too much water to be able to float, they are commonly used by climbers and are branded with such names as vectran spectra dyneema etc, think kevlar.
polypropylene absorbs very little water and can float, but is only worth about 195 degrees, so not good for very fast or long rappels where too much heat might get generated.
to give you an idea nylon 6.6 is rated for 235 degrees, and it is recommended that rappels of 100 meters or more are to be avoided hence the reason most cavers rebelay the big drops, that and the fact that when a drop gets too long it is impossible to rappel due to rope weight locking up the descender.

but steve hawkshaws ropes listed in the link above are an excellent choice for both caving and canyoneering.

tariadamar

3-Oct-2011
9:28:05 AM

thanks so far. i am planning to do a caynoning course cause it is like 150 for the day and i think i would pick up some tricks for escapable systems and stuff. this has helped me alot and a new website to buy gear from thanks alot.

Jayford4321

3-Oct-2011
9:50:44 AM

one of the best places to get gear is right here, the main site sponsor is Steve Morris @ rock hardware.

tariadamar

3-Oct-2011
10:37:08 AM

yeah thats where i am looking at getting the 10.5 mm blue water rope from.

rodw

3-Oct-2011
10:57:51 AM

I always used 11mm for caving, mainly because they cop a lot of bad treatment being dragged around in caves and the 11mm just meant it lasted a little bit longer in terms of practical use.

sbm

3-Oct-2011
1:00:48 PM

On 3/10/2011 jammin wrote:
>polyamide ropes do not float, I think you must mean polypropylene rope
>!
>aramide ropes are good at resisting heat,400 degrees plus, but absorb
>too much water to be able to float, they are commonly used by climbers
>and are branded with such names as vectran spectra dyneema etc, think kevlar.

Ah thanks, I knew it was polysomething, I got my polymers mixed up.

E. Wells

3-Oct-2011
10:12:05 PM

Cool, a one day canyoning course for $150? I use a 9ml static from edelrid that floats , seeing as theres always 2 strands its a good speed, theres nothing worse than jerkin your way through a waterfall!

widewetandslippery

4-Oct-2011
7:03:11 AM

If you do a course let them know you actually want to learn something as oposed to it all being a one off. Pressure them into giving you an instructor that can teach.

IdratherbeclimbingM9

4-Oct-2011
8:05:44 AM

On 2/10/2011 tariadamar wrote:
>gday i am looking for a caving and caynoning rope and just have a few questions.
>i have not done much caynoning or wet caves and just want a little more
>info befor ei buy.(i am lined up to do a couple of caynoning courses nest
>year)
>* which rope do you recomend and use.

A static rope is better in many caving/canyoning applications because it doesn't stretch as much as a dynamic one does.
I agree with others who posted above, that a beefier rope (ie 11mm rather than say 9mm), handles the caving environment better.

>* i was looking at this rope http://bluewaterropes.com/Mobile/QRDisplay.asp?PKey=139P

Blue Water ropes have been the industry standard in Australia for caving/canyoning application almost forever (read at least since the late '60's), although they have competitors who are equal to the task these days.

>* does the diameter of a rope affect the abbility of a rope when wet.
>(like does a skinny rope operate with gear as a thicker dry rope would)

Most ropes are weaker when wet. Having said this, they are more than up to the task for your needs even when wet.

Wet ropes are 'faster' to abseil on, ie harder to brake with, due less friction in abseiling equipment. New ropes are also 'faster' than old ropes in the same application. Be aware of this and make sure your abseiling equipment matches the rope diameter you intend to use, ... although there are other tricks that can be used to provide additional friction and make descents more easily managed.

>* would it be better to get a proper caynon rope and if so what is the
>difference in the rope.

There is no real advantage, unless you intend to do so much of it in swim through style canyons, that you feel the need is worth it.
If your swimming ability is ordinary, and you feel the weight of a wet rope will hinder you in that environment, then consider putting the rope in a 'dry bag', ... not to keep it dry but because the dribags usually seal well and you can trap some air in the bag to assist floating the rope.
>
>any other help you could offer would be great thankyou kieran.

tariadamar

4-Oct-2011
9:29:20 AM

thanks for that response you have sold me on the blue water 10.5 mm rope now. thanks for all the help.

There are 14 messages in this topic.