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Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
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Chockstone Forum - Accidents & Injuries

Report Accidents and Injuries

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 51
Author
Booroomba accident
mikllaw
16-Apr-2016
6:21:05 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-16/rock-climber-injured-near-canberra/7332280

JamesMc
16-Apr-2016
9:26:13 PM
Should be OK. They have two pumpers on site. That should stop them sinking.

gffc
17-Apr-2016
1:19:43 PM
http://esa.act.gov.au/2016/04/16/update-three-rock-climbers-injured-in-tharwa/

The climber was successfully hauled out yesterday evening. Through the Facebook grapevine, I've heard that she suffered a concussion, but should be okay. No details yet on what happened.

sticky
17-Apr-2016
2:31:19 PM
I called the ambulance and chopper and heard but didn't see the fall. The climber was on Hermes on the North Buttress, about halfway up the second pitch. Fall would have been about 8m. She was scratching around the same point for quite a while before the fall.

We were at the top of the wall about 150-200m away.

The rescue chopper couldn't get close enough to the climber given the proximity of the cliffs, so the firies and police had to get in from above. We left once we were no longer useful.

The 000 operator, chopper pilot, national parks and the firies we talked to seemed calm and professional.

Glad it sounds like the climber is okay.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
19-Apr-2016
9:47:14 AM
On 17/04/2016 sticky wrote:
>(snip) The climber was on Hermes on the North Buttress, about halfway up the second
>pitch. Fall would have been about 8m. She was scratching around the same point for quite a while before the fall.
>(snip)

If that was the case then it sounds like the climber was out of their depth, as the top of that pitch is harder (imo) than the middle of it...

>Glad it sounds like the climber is okay.

Hopefully that is the case.

As a climber, and one who frequents Booroomba from time to time, I thank the rescue authorities for attending, though I winced when I read in the report the bit about the 'pumpers'.
I moderated my thinking however, when the thought occurred to me that by default it would have amounted to extra helping hands having arrived and that could have made a significant difference to the outcome, depending upon the circumstances they confronted...
One Day Hero
19-Apr-2016
5:43:20 PM
On 19/04/2016 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>If that was the case then it sounds like the climber was out of their
>depth, as the top of that pitch is harder (imo) than the middle of it...
>
There's a little section in the middle which is a bit tricky and is best protected by a #5 camalot. I don't own one of those so have always run it out (yes, including back when gr16 was hard for me). I expect that it would be a nasty fall from there without the big cam. This beta will be in the new guidebook (whenever we get that bloody thing finished).

I don't know anything about this incident and am not speculating on what happened there. Hope the climber is ok.
Ithomas
19-Apr-2016
8:56:32 PM
I remember Ken Warners death on Hernes in 1971 so the climb has a history ( he was soloing!!). I wonder at the utility and sense of suggesting 'essential' pieces of gear for climbs like Hermes which have had countless ascents using every type of protection imaginable. I think that the phrase 'is best prorected by a #5 Camalot' is not necessarily true nor useful in the long term. I think that such specific levels of information may promote an unhealthy dependence on prior knowledge instead of an ability to 'nut' out a problem? I am not sure how to make my contention into a general rule because I am sure that there will be hundreds of examples which could make it look silly. Nontheless, I have a gut feeling that we are getting a little too protective in our advice and I say that knowing that a fellow climber has just been hurt on a climb where I am suggesting less information not more!

phillipivan
19-Apr-2016
10:28:37 PM
Ithomas,

Don't most modern guides already provide that kind of information where the authors deem it relevant? Seems to me like the boat has already sailed on that one as far as the broader climbing community is concerned.

Withholding that kind of information at well developed crags seems a bit petty. I doubt the end result would be a community of climbers better equipped to 'nut stuff out', rather a bunch of routes that see ascents less frequently.

PI.
patto
20-Apr-2016
12:45:33 AM
When a climb is written up in a guide you are implicitly encouraging, inviting others to do it. Like it or not, there is also the implicit assumption that the climb is reasonably protectable within a certain contex,t. In most circumstances, writing up a climb with a 40m runout would not seem reasonable or even safe without mentioning it. Bolted climbs with a 25m runout exist, to not mention the run outs would invite trouble.

On 19/04/2016 phillipivan wrote:
>Don't most modern guides already provide that kind of information where
>the authors deem it relevant? Seems to me like the boat has already sailed
>on that one as far as the broader climbing community is concerned.
Yep. That boat has long sailed.

Meanwhile Bluemountains canyoning seems to be stuck in a nexus where there is a culture of poor guide books and limited information. Apparently this is a good thing because it encourages adventure....

cruze
20-Apr-2016
7:24:36 AM
I hope the climber recovers well.

I remember Hermes well - water flowing out from under the roof made the traverse rather gripping.

I also remember the wide section ODH is talking about, and remember just sucking it up and laybacking on carefully. I could imagine that if you were hanging around trying to frig in a piece of gear somewhere in that section then a foot could easily slip off, eventually.

Hermes is a trade route. It isn't a sketchy testpiece. I reckon fair warning should be given about the possibility of needing either a confident approach or a piece of very big gear.
One Day Hero
20-Apr-2016
10:17:02 AM
On 19/04/2016 Ithomas wrote:
>I wonder at the utility and sense of suggesting 'essential'
>pieces of gear for climbs like Hermes which have had countless ascents
>using every type of protection imaginable. I think that the phrase 'is
>best prorected by a #5 Camalot' is not necessarily true nor useful in the
>long term.

Hi Ian, thanks for your input. I do generally agree with what you're saying, however there are a couple of situations where I feel specific gear info is justified.
Since there are such a high proportion of routes at Booroomba on which lead falls are seriously ill-advised, I thought a list of "routes which won't kill you too much" might be worthwhile. Hermes is one of the routes I was planning to put on that list (I'm now a bit more hesitant about doing so).
The reasons for specifying a #5 cam on Hermes are that;
a) there is almost nowhere else at Booroomba that a piece that big is useful. If you aren't planning to climb Hermes, you probably shouldn't carry it up the hill.
b) there is a 4m section of climbing (as hard as anything else on the route) where the only possible protection is a #4 cam buried in at arms depth or the #5 cam placed easily.
c) as long as I was armed with the big cam and placed sufficient pro, I'd be confident that I could jump off anywhere on that pitch and not get hurt
One Day Hero
20-Apr-2016
10:31:56 AM
On 20/04/2016 patto wrote:
>Meanwhile Bluemountains canyoning seems to be stuck in a nexus where there
>is a culture of poor guide books and limited information. Apparently this
>is a good thing because it encourages adventure....

You misunderstand the situation. High traffic (and numpties who don't know how to tread lightly) trash canyons very badly. The people who discovered those places don't want to see them trashed. "Encouraging adventure" is code for "if you don't have the skills and experience to get to these places without full beta and bolted abseils, then fuch off"
dmcg
20-Apr-2016
10:37:11 AM
I know no details of the accident other than hearing last night that the climber involved is fine which is good news, so not even sure if the ‘awkward wide bit’ on the second pitch is the culprit in this instance, but I remember 25 plus years on a climb around the corner and out of sight from hermes when we heard the dreaded sound of gear clanking down rock followed by a thud then a lot of yelling. We climbed back around and with others were involved in the lowering off and subsequent chopper rescue of a climber who had fallen from this awkward wide bit on hermes either pulled his gear or didn’t place any (cant remember) bounced off ledges landing on the belay ledge splitting his helmetless head open and required 40 stiches (but never losing consciousness).
Like ODH I remember climbing hermes when 16 was hard (and now it is again, bugger it) and that wide bit was always slightly anxious making requiring reaching in a long way off an awkward stance to place a 4 friend (biggest at the time) of before then placing an 11 hex even more awkwardly. Given the ledges and flakes immediately below a fall from this spot would never be clean. I also have a vague memory of watching from the top of booroomba as someone took off their fibreglass joe brown helmet, wedged it in the crack at that point and tied it off.
It is a protectable spot, with the right bit of gear and a bit of care and patience placing it.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
20-Apr-2016
11:40:05 AM
At risk of continued thread hijack... I find the concepts of beta vs adventure intriguing in this thread.
Maybe it reflects a subtle change in attitude by more modern participants of the game we play?

It isn't as if one can't see what's ahead while climbing Hermes, and that creates opportunities to reassess continuing ascent, or at least the manner of same.
It's a trad climb and I've always considered the best way to do them is climb stance to stance, where rest opportunity and protection opportunity may arise.
This sometimes necessarily involves run-outs, but that is the nature of the game we play is it not?

The most memorable climbs were those that gave false hope of rest or protection, but again, that just makes for an unexpected run-out...

For me, trad climbing is primarily adventure based, particularly multipitch.
A climb without risk contains no adventure.
The adventure component is the hook that keeps me climbing...
Managing the risk by assessment of ability and constrained tactics is different to murdering a climb into submission by dumbing it down with beta and/or technology.

Let the flaming begin, or is anyone up for a retro of it now that it has a history of misadventure by some?
;-)
timbigot
20-Apr-2016
11:48:34 AM
The current guide already does say "a very large friend is usefull " for the wide bit. ODH is just suggesting that defining this single piece saves a fair bit of frigging around. Surely the point of a guide book.
One Day Hero
20-Apr-2016
1:26:36 PM
On 20/04/2016 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>It isn't as if one can't see what's ahead while climbing Hermes, and that
>creates opportunities to reassess continuing ascent, or at least the manner
>of same.

Well yes, but by time you get to the point where you can see that a #5 would be useful, you're a rather long way from your mate's garage where a #5 is gathering dust because it's useless ballast 99% of the time.

>This sometimes necessarily involves run-outs, but that is the nature of
>the game we play is it not?

Yep, but in this instace the runout isn't necessary. I hear what you're saying, but surely on relatively easy routes the mention of 'non-standard' gear isn't overly beta-ing the climb into submission?
>
>The most memorable climbs were those that gave false hope of rest or protection,
>but again, that just makes for an unexpected run-out...

Do you think I should bother to mention that Immaculate Deception is a completely unprotected gr22 death route, despite appearing from below to be easier and well protected?
>
>A climb without risk contains no adventure.

I strongly disagree with this. There are tons of climbs on which I've had great adventures despite them being essentially risk free. Meanwhile, I find it pretty irritating going onsite on gear intensive routes (like many things at Frog) and having to choose between carrying an oversize rack or probably not having the right gear left for the top.
climberman
20-Apr-2016
1:41:36 PM
On 20/04/2016 One Day Hero wrote:

>You misunderstand the situation. High traffic (and numpties who don't
>know how to tread lightly) trash canyons very badly.

I think canyons are actually pretty good at recovery from impacts, being basically an environment where nature trashes them via large flood events on a regular (if infrequent) basis.

phillipivan
20-Apr-2016
1:53:52 PM
Rod,

Would you feel differently if you had flown to Tas and walked into Frenchman's cap, for instance, only to find the gear required for the route you choose on the only dry day was back in Vic? (Didn't really happen to me, we had good weather, and ran things out cause we chose to carry in a small rack).

Whilst I think formally publishing excessively detailed gear notes (such as in my and HuwJ's Ozi TRs) would be a bit silly, a lot silly maybe, there is some pragmatic common sense info that guide book authors should provide that doesn't ruin the sense of adventure for folks. Heck people continue to have wild times on Angels despite all the info available. ODH clearly understands this, which is probably a good thing for someone writing a guide.

One Day Hero
20-Apr-2016
2:18:00 PM
On 20/04/2016 climberman wrote:
>I think canyons are actually pretty good at recovery from impacts, being
>basically an environment where nature trashes them via large flood events
>on a regular (if infrequent) basis.

Things like Grand Canyon and Claustral never get to recover because they get pounded by traffic. It's quite plausible that public release of canyon info would lead to commercial groups going into some of them, retrobolting, and trashing them with traffic (with financial gain being their main motivation). Given that this has already happened to a number of canyons, why would anyone with knowledge of the unpublished ones seek to release it to a wider audience?
climberman
20-Apr-2016
2:59:58 PM
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/28/1048653853629.html

http://publications.rzsnsw.org.au/doi/pdf/10.7882/AZ.2011.027 :
"We concluded that, at current visitation levels, there is no measurable impact on the predominant
animal component of these ecosystems. This finding was contrary to the expectations of the land
managers of this area."

Never go there personally, cold and wet places.

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 51
There are 51 messages in this topic.

 

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